The letter to King James

45degreeN · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:15 am Post subject:

We must look into the thoughts of the writers of the KJV and their biases, not just our own. These biases are not unknown to those who study such things.

They were hardly specially sanctified for this task they just got permission from the King to do what, up until that time was illegal.
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JonMarie · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 748 Location: Pa.

bigape, thanks for you posts, enjoyed them very much, looking forward to reading more from you.

bigape · Fierce Puppy Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 237

Hi JonMarie

Thanks for the words of encouragement.
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Matthew 7:13-14
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way,
that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.

polarized · Sea Monkey Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 14

Blessings,

King James version is not accurate. The epistle of James was named after the king. had it been published under the original name it would have been the Epistle of Jacobos.

Blessings.

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:37 am Post subject:

Polarized: James is a derivation of Jacob, or didn't you know that?
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.

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polarized · Sea Monkey Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 14

JonMarie · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 748 Location: Pa.

I have learned alot from the posts on Bible-discussion, and I am grateful to all those who post and of course those who make it possible.

YLTYLT · Ferret Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 120

GospelCompilation · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject:

My wife and I would like to interject a little note into this debate regarding the accuracy of the King James Version, if you don't mind. And it concerns Matthew 11:12.

The King James Version reads that "from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

Any idea how reliable that verse is to the original? In fact, does anyone have any idea what it even means, as it reads in the KJV?

Jesus often alluded or hinted at verses from the Old Testament. A fine example of this technique is Matthew 11:12, which is better translated as, "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has been breaking through, and those who break through take hold of it."

According to Jesus, there was a specific point in time when the kingdom of heaven broke forth upon the earth (namely, "from the days of John the Baptist until now"). This agrees with Luke 16:16, where Jesus said "the law and the prophets were until John. But since that time, the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

In using the phrase, "breaking forth," in Matthew 11:12, Jesus alludes to Micah 2:13, where the Messiah "breaks down [the makeshift stone corral wall to let out the sheep in the morning]. The sheep pass through the gate, with their King before them, and Yahweh at their head." Jesus' reference to the kingdom "breaking forth" characterized this movement as a large and expanding group, of which He was the "breaker" (or more specifically, the Shepherd, the King, or even Yahweh), and His disciples were the sheep.

Matthew 11:12 is a strong Messianic statement, and a very clear teaching on when the Kingdom of God began. But, both of these facts are lost in the King James Version.

:!:

45degreeN · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject:

The real issue for me on 'KJV only' is the fact that every language changes over time and not smoothly. One cannot claim accuracy and still claim that the oldest is the best since the rest of the linguistic world has changed tremendously since the 16th century. We simply dont live in the 16th century any more.

Clearly even scholarship on the Greek has changed since that time and new variations of understanding have come about.

Even if we all learn Greek and read from the Masoretic texts, there are other concurrent codices which have variations from that yet have the same or better references.
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bigape · Fierce Puppy Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 237

Hi 45degreeN

I think you have put your finger on this whole issue for me:

When you said.......

FFT · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:13 am Post subject:

Bigape: I feel just the opposite based upon the same argument. If God is to communicate with us do you think He would make it so hard for us to read and understand the Bible? and if that is true then why not expect us to all to learn Greek or Hebrew (or both)?

It's not a 'merit' thing to be able to read the KJV in the older forms of English, the people at that time spoke that way and for them it was commonly understood the way it was.
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Plotinus · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:15 am Post subject:

Here is a problem that I would like some opinions on.

Proponents of KJV only know that the KJV is based upon the Masoretic text, which differs in many places from the Greek Septuagint. Most textual critics find the Masoretic text more reliable than the Septuagint, although liberal textual critics prefer to use the Septuagint over the Masoretic text when the latter does not make sense and the Septuagint does, and the difference can be explained by a vowel change in the Hebrew. (Vowels were omitted in the earliest manuscripts.)

Now here is the point. There is a testimony against a strict adherence to the Masoretic text. It comes from the very writers of the NT themselves, who, when quoting the OT, mostly used the Septuagint and not the Masoretic text. If the writers of the NT were not worried about the differences between these texts--and whether the Septuagint was in error--why do KJV only people worry about it so much?
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.

Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7.

bigape · Fierce Puppy Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 237

Hi 45degreeN

Just a quick note:

For me it is not a “merit” thing, it is just my choice.

As for the KJV, being hard to read: (It is English), Although it may have a few words here and their that force you to go to an English dictionary, this work is well worth it.
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I went to visit my son and daughter-in law a few months ago, and my oldest grandson is about eight years old: And while their I encouraged him to start reading his little Bible, every day(a KJV).

We started off with John 3:16 and then went to Ecclesiastes 12:13, etc.

And when I would question him about what these verses meant, he hit the mark:
(Of course He got saved last year:)
-But He is only eight!-

I think, that a lot of this (I can’t understand it), stuff, is simply an excuse.

See you later
_________________
Matthew 7:13-14
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way,
that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.