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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You assert that particular verses are only to be applied to a particular church in a particular place and cannot/ should not be applied today. |
Au contraire.
I pointed out the fact that the passage you referenced as the scriptural dictate for the performance of all 'church' services was not as you said. It was an address by Paul to the issues of the problems in the services held in the Corinthian chruch.
Nothing in what Paul wrote indicates that the services already being conducted in Corinth were to be, or should be applied to all churches in the world. In fact, Paul did not even outline the conduct of those services but described what the Corinthians were already doing and admonishing them on how to maintain order when they did what they were doing.
| Quote: | | The simple fact as I see it is that you do not pretend to have a defence for that specific action so our discussion has shifted to exploring each others motives and justifications. |
It is not a fact as you seem to not realize that you ignored much of what I posted, chose not to address or debate what I offered and proceeded to divert attention from the issue being discussed through the propping up of strawmen and launching personal attacks.
| Quote: | | I would that there were more who were prepared to challange people like yourself to do ALL the COUNCIL of God, not just the parts that you agree with. |
Honestly you haven't demonstrated where there were any parts of the council of God that I did not agree with.
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You have repeadly "disregarded" the instruction concerning the running of your church service. You claim that it was ONLY for the Corinthian fellowship of believers. In this you are "Disregarding God's Commands. |
Wrong again. I've pointed out that nothing in scripture indicates that this is a command from God on how to run a church service. You are the one stating that, not the Word of God.
| Quote: | | By saying that the commandment to do those things contained in Corinthians 14:26-37 are not for today or for anyone except the Corinth Church that constitutes deviation from God's explicit instruction. I cannot be any clearer than that. |
I've never said any such thing as you suggest. What I have said is that there is nothing scriptural to support the idea you propose that God commanded anyone to conduct their 'church service' as the Corinthians did. Nothing in all the epistles to all the churches that suggests that, nothing in Acts which describes how the very first Christians conducted their gatherings suggests that. Furthermore, you stated very clearly that you assume that all churches did, or should, conduct their services as the Corinthians did, and then have the gall to come at me accusing me of disregarding scripture. Since when are your unsupported assumptions scripture?
| Quote: | | Stop being offended because we disagree and deal with the substance of what scripture directs. |
As soon as you start addressing the things that scripture directs and stop casting aspersions...
| Quote: | | often times in debates like this, when we just start to make some progress one or other cries foul and walks away without dealing with anything. |
I haven't gone anywhere and am patiently waiting for you to actually address the letter of the Word and not your assumptions.
| Quote: | Say what you like, I am not offended, we have more important concerns than our bruised ego and hurt feelings, do we not!
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Right back at you.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Luke 7:35
House Cat
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: A fresh start |
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It seems to me that much of the substance of what I am saying is being missed. Probably because my posts have been too large. As such I will keep it very very simple.
Do you believe that the Corinthian Church, when they met together had the following:
1) Songs or psalms
2) A doctrine, sermon
3) Communion (Bread and Wine)
4) Speaking in Tongues (2 or 3)
5) Interpretation of Tongues (2 or 3)
6) Prophecy or revelation (2 or 3)
because of 1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath 1) a psalm, hath 2) a doctrine, hath 4) a tongue, hath a 6)revelation, hath an 5) interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Also How does your church run their meetings "when ye come together?"
PS I will start a new topic on the importance of "How Meetings Should Be Run"
God Bless
Luke 7:35
_________________
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Do you believe that the Corinthian Church, when they met together had the following: |
That was never in question.
| Quote: | | Also How does your church run their meetings "when ye come together?" |
which one, and why is it relevant to this discussion?
| Quote: |
PS I will start a new topic on the importance of "How Meetings Should Be Run" |
Don't.
There is no need to start another thread on the same topic already being discussed.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Luke 7:35
House Cat
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Sorry |
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Sorry to be a pest but this topic is supposed to be "The Sabbath" and within this topic we have digressed to talk about church structure and the result is that our two views are the only two views being explored.
Starting another topic allows different POV to be voiced.
I am trying not to be stubborn and allow the truth to win out and perhaps some other perspectives may communicate this better to me.
I am appearing un-movable on this issue because I have witnessed so many lives changes as a result of the 1st Corinthians 14:26-37 model. So please be patient and allow others to have their say.
God Bless you RevJP
I know your intention is good
But we live in an age when many are being self-deceived (not saying you are) but these topics need to be talked through.
God Bless
Luke 7:35
_________________
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke 7:35 wrote: | We must, if we are seeking the TRUTH refrain from picking and choosing which translation agrees with our POV. The Hebrew word for stammering has the following meaning:
Strong's Concordance of the Bible
H3934לעג
From H3932; a buffoon; also a foreigner: - mocker, stammering. |
What is your source for this? I looked in strongs and in swanson it is not from there numbering system.
Thanks
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Starting another topic allows different POV to be voiced.
So please be patient and allow others to have their say. |
This is a public forum and all members are free to participate. Nothing I've posted, or you have posted can or will prohibit someone else from adding their views if they so wish.
| Quote: | | But we live in an age when many are being self-deceived (not saying you are) but these topics need to be talked through. |
I do believe that is what is happening here, is it not?
As far as the model of service is concerned, you assert that Paul is dictating how all church services should be conducted via his letter to the Corinthians, I assert that there is nothing in that epistle or elsewhere that supports that assertion.
I am trying not to be stubborn and allow the truth to win out
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man.
Last edited by RevJP on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Luke 7:35
House Cat
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | | Luke 7:35 wrote: | We must, if we are seeking the TRUTH refrain from picking and choosing which translation agrees with our POV. The Hebrew word for stammering has the following meaning:
Strong's Concordance of the Bible
H3934לעג
From H3932; a buffoon; also a foreigner: - mocker, stammering. |
What is your source for this? I looked in strongs and in swanson it is not from there numbering system.
Thanks |
Check again Ragman it is Strongs.
Se ya
Luke 7:35
_________________
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? |
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Luke 7:35
House Cat
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: A few points |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | Starting another topic allows different POV to be voiced.
So please be patient and allow others to have their say. |
This is a public forum and all members are free to participate. Nothing I've posted, or you have posted can or will prohibit someone else from adding their views if they so wish.
| Quote: | | But we live in an age when many are being self-deceived (not saying you are) but these topics need to be talked through. |
I do believe that is what is happening here, is it not?
As far as the model of service is concerned, you assert that Paul is dictating how all church services should be conducted via his letter to the Corinthians, I assert that there is nothing in that epistle or elsewhere that supports that assertion.
I am trying not to be stubborn and allow the truth to win out |
Hi there RevJP: When you said "This is a public forum and all members are free to participate. Nothing I've posted, or you have posted can or will prohibit someone else from adding their views if they so wish".
This is right but the problem with this discussion taking place in the "Sabbath" topic is that those who are scanning the topics and have something to contribute will not know the discussion is taking place unless they have an interest in the Sabbath and find our church meeting discussion by accident. So as such why do you not want people to have that choice to comment or not?
I know you don't want to quash discussion so why lock out that topic?
I don't understand!
Luke 7:35
_________________
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So as such why do you not want people to have that choice to comment or not? |
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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