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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2048
Location: Atlanta
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 Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: What the Christian faith is and isn't |
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| Quote: | | But while Buddhism and Islam are based primarily on the teaching of the Buddha and Mohammae, respectively, Christianity is based primarily on the person of Christ. The Christian faith is not belief in his teaching, but in what is taught about him. The appeal of Protestant liberals to "believe what Jesus believed," rather than to believe in Jesus, is a dramatic transformation of the fundamental nature of Christianity. |
(Harold O.J. Brown, Heresies: Heresy And Orthodoxy In The History Of The Church, p. 13)
"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road." (Matthew 13:19 NASB)
"The sower sows the word. These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown, and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them." (Mark 4:14-15 NASB)
"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. Those beside the road are those who heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved." (Luke 8:12 NASB)
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17 NASB)
Salvation depends on hearing and believing the gospel that Jesus preached. Yet Dr. Brown is telling us that "the Christian faith is not belief in his [Jesus'] teaching."
Jesus shorn of his teaching is, I suggest, not the Jesus of scripture. To believe in Jesus is to believe in the word (the message) he spoke and repent of our unbelief.
Belief in the teachings of Jesus is not the Christian faith? Don't listen to Jesus? That sounds very dangerous to me. What do you think? |
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Rocket
House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been saying that for a long time and yes it is scary. The Catholic church was formed in the forth century, because of all the controvery over belief. The followers of Yeshua were mostly Hebrew who remained in Israel and attended services in Synoguages. There were many Pagan converts living outside of Israel who Paul taught. The letters of Paul to these church outside of Israel are a big part of what makes up the NT. Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles who are anyone not a Hebrew and most of the middle east at that time was Pagan. So the pagans brought many of their beliefs into the Catholic church which was the only one for a thousand years. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Mattathias,
| Mattathias wrote: | | Salvation depends on hearing and believing the gospel that Jesus preached. Yet Dr. Brown is telling us that "the Christian faith is not belief in his [Jesus'] teaching." |
I believe Dr. Browns observation is quite astute in relation to "Christendom"(religions that claim to be Christian yet deny it by their actions). They use Jesus as an icon, yet don't follow what he actually said. That is also why Gandi said he loves the Christ, but not the "Christians".
True Christians do indeed follow Jesus' teachings in their whole life, not picking and choosing which to follow and which to ignor. 
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2048
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Brown is not alone in his assessment of what the Christian faith is and is not.
| Quote: | | Many people today think the essence of Christianity is Jesus’ teachings, but that is not so… Christianity centers not in the teachings of Jesus, but in the person of Jesus as Incarnate God who came into the world to take upon Himself our guilt and die in our place. |
(D. James Kennedy,"How I Know Jesus Is God," Truths that Transform, 11/17/1989)
I don't know if this point of view about the faith is typical or not. If other prominent pastors or theologians have made assertions like these I would like to hear about them. |
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stevie
Newbie Alert
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 3
Location: kalamazoo, MI
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| I would say for one the part of practising Jesus' teachings is certainly required. As it is written, Matthew 7:21, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. And I don't think anyone wants to be in that category, so as verse 24 says, come to him, hear him, and do his will. |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2048
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you will read the epistles of Paul, you will notice the message centers in three things: the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Christ. As far as Paul was concerned Christ Jesus came to do three days' work: that work was commenced when he was nailed on the cross and was ended when God raised him from among the dead. Paul never discussed the earthly life of our Lord - his baptism, his temptation, his miracles, his teachings, or even his sufferings in the Garden of Gethsemane. This is quite in keeping with the rest of the New Testament, for we must remember that Christ came not primarily to preach the gospel (though he did herald deliverance to the prisoner), but he came rather that there might be a gospel to preach. This gospel was won and brought into being by his work on the cross. We should remember that Jesus Christ had lived the Sermon on the Mount for 30 years before he ever preached it. His teachings and his sinless life never changed a life nor delivered one person from the life of sin. Only his death on the cross could do that. |
(Roy Gustafson, What Is the Gospel?, Billy Graham Evangelical Association, 1980)
"And now I [Paul] know that none of you, among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom, will ever see my face again." (Acts 20:25 NRSV)
"He [Paul] lived there two whole years at his own expense and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance." (Acts 28:30-31 NRSV)
"But he [Jesus] said to them, 'I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other cities also for I was sent for this purpose.'" (Luke 4:43 NRSV)
"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart..." (Matthew 13:18-19 NRSV)
"The ones on the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word [the word of the kingdom, per Matthew] from their hearts so that they may not believe and be saved." (Luke 8:12 NRSV) |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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How is it possible to separate the two? Those who try are fooling themselves.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Rocket
House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Many people today think the essence of Christianity is Jesus’ teachings, but that is not so… Christianity centers not in the teachings of Jesus, but in the person of Jesus as Incarnate God who came into the world to take upon Himself our guilt and die in our place.
Well, well, very interesting, you and Mr. Brown must be Catholic. There is no such thing as an Incarnate God, God in three persons or anything else. This faith, as taught by Jesus should be centered around God the Father. Jesus is His son and as Jesus claims many, many times in the Bible, He was sent, sent, sent, by God the Father. Yes He took our guilt and died in our place, but why did God send Him to do that. God's people sinned against Him, that's why. The Jews sinned, so God sent Jesus to be their sacrifice. To free them of the sin and guilt they brought upon themselves. We are the descendents and receivers of that freedom from sin. Are we pagan? Why would a Jewish Jesus teach something from a pagan faith, that caused the sin in the first place. Can't you see, don't you remember the command God gave the Jews, to rid Canaan of it's people, people who believed in Baal. Who sacrificed their own children to this Baal God. How can anyone sit there and basically do what the ancients Jews did that caused all this trouble in the first place. Read the Bible, Old and New. |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2048
Location: Atlanta
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