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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

I see one problem here:

Elohim is not to be 'understood in the plural sense', it is to be understood to denote a plurality.

One is to denote multiples of the same, the other denote a multiplicity to the one.
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Bro. Steve Winter · Big Guppy Joined: 04 Jun 2008 Posts: 49

Amazing how many years now that the false-christian polytheists have tried to twist the word "elohim" to justify their polytheism. They play on ignorance and peddle deception.

Here is a study that I hope will be helpful.

Area General Bible, PRIME Network Msg#826, Jan-19-92 07:02:00

From: Don Peters To: All Subject: Elohim - Singular or Plural?

Some people think that the Hebrew word "Elohim" indirectly proves a Trinity of three persons (but somehow not three gods) simply because it is the plural form of the singular Eloah, which has as its root word El, which means "strength", "power", or "might".

Can we disprove that Elohim has any Trinitarian suggestions?

1. Many Hebrew words are plural in construction but singular
in usage, such as "face", "life", "water" and "heaven". Even so, the meaning of these words and the verbs that are
used with them are singular.

2. Elohim (when applied to God) is always used with a
singular verb: words such as "is" and "created" (Gen 1:1)
are used with it only in singular constructions. But
Elohim, when applied to pagan deities, is always used with
a plural verb.

3. In these cases, individual gods are called Elohim:

Jdg 8:33 Baalberith
Jdg 11:24 Chemosh
Jdg 16:23 Dagon
1Ki 11:5 Ashtoreth
2Ki 1:2-3 Baalzebub
2Ki 19:37 Nisroch

Ex 32:1-31 The (single) golden calf

Although it is possible for Elohim to apply to multiple "gods":

1Sa 28:13 spirit beings
Ps 82:1-6 human rulers or judges

4. We must especially note Ashtoreth, with its -eth ending,
which signifies a FEMALE SINGULAR identity. And yet
Ashtoreth is called Elohim, which is a MALE PLURAL noun.
How can this be, if Elohim necessitates three persons?

Clearly it does not.

5. Elohim wrestled with Jacob, yet there was only one being
wrestling with him (Gen 32:24-28).

6. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Moses (Ex 7:1), but no one
suggests that there were three persons in Moses.

7. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Jesus Christ (Ps 45:6, Zech
12:8-10; 14:5), but no one suggests there are three
persons in Christ.

8. Elohim is called our "father" in Mal 2:10: "Have we not
all one father? hath not one God created us? ..."

9. Eloah (the singular for Elohim) is also used for God in
verses such as Neh 9:17. El is also used for God in places
such as Gen 14:18. If Elohim means three persons, then El
means one person.

10. The largest Hebrew-English lexicon ever produced says that Elohim is an example of a "plural intensive" (Brown,
Driver, Briggs; Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament.)

11. Jewish scholars argue that "Elohim is a plural form which
is often used in Hebrew to denote plentitude of might"
(Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs). Others say, "The
form of the word, Elohim, is plural. The Hebrews
pluralized nouns to express greatness or majesty"
(Flanders, Cresson; Introduction to the Bible). And again,
"The idea that Elohim referred to a plurality of persons
in the Godhead when referring to the living God hardly
finds now a supporter among scholars" (Smith's Bible Dictionary).

12. John Calvin, who was the chief prosecutor of Michael
Servetus, had Servetus put to death on the basis that he
denied three persons in the Godhead. Yet Calvin, who knew Hebrew, ridiculed any attempt to find a Trinity using
anything from the Old Testament (Robert Brent Graves, The
God of Two Testaments.)

13. If "Elohim" is a plural word referring to three persons,
then "El" must refer to only one of those three persons.
This would mean a Trinitarian would have a massive job
explaining which instances of "El" in the scriptures
referred to which Triune Person in Elohim.

In summary, any use of the word Elohim must be kept totally in a singular context. In many ways, the Bible shows that the word "Elohim" in entirely singular in concept, despite its grammatical plurality. There was only one golden calf called Elohim, only one being called Elohim wrestled with Jacob, and only one being, Jesus Christ, called Elohim.

Written by Don Peters (a Christian) around 1991

Bro. Steve Winter

Mattathias · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:38 am Post subject:

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JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1033

beloved57

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

You said:
I wouldn't be sure He is your Heavenly father first of all.

If that came from another source I might feel bad. But I don't so save the insults.

You asked:

Then how are you sure He was talking with angels ? And who was Talking to here ?

I was being sarcastic. You read right over the point of the post and focused on the sarcasm. You have not yet dealt with the difficulty of the the determinate council.

If you think that silly insults will give you favor with God then you are a foolish fellow. I tell you what. When you can explain who God was talking to in the council then I will respond to your post.

JB