Is Jesus YHWH?

Mattathias · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: Is Jesus YHWH?

The question is often asked, Is Jesus God? Since the term "God" is capable of being understood in a secondary sense, the question is actually ambiguous. In other words, the question could correctly be answered with both a yes and a no. ("No" in the primary sense of the word; "yes" in the secondary sense of the word.)

Perhaps the question should more pointedly be asked, Is Jesus YHWH? A follow-up question might then be, How many YHWH's are there?

The disagreement between Trinitarians and Unitarians would not be resolved but at least the ambiguity of the former question would be avoided.

Mattathias · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:08 am Post subject:

The Son of God has a name - Jesus.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has a name - YHWH.

The Son of God prayed to God. What was the name of the God he prayed to?

Is the Son of God YHWH?

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 156

Location: Atlanta
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:08 am Post subject:

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The Son of God has a name - Jesus.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has a name - YHWH.

The Son of God prayed to God. What was the name of the God he prayed to?

Is the Son of God YHWH?

Jesus is a Greek name for Yeshua.

Mattathias · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:

Paul2 · Ferret Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 100 Location: Australia

Mattathias,

james · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 753

Paul2,

Then how would you go on to explain verse 56 -58 further down where Christ said "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: AND HE SAW IT, and was glad." and also went on to say "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am"
Was not Christ the one who was "God, Himself, manifested in the flesh" 1 Tim 3:16 and Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23 "Emmanuel, which is interpreted, God with us" and John 1:1,14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD." " And the Word was made flesh."

Paul2 · Ferret Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 100 Location: Australia

james,

Mattathias · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:31 am Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1970

james,

Nice question. Perhaps this will help. How did Abraham "see" Jesus day?

Heb 11:13 In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.

By faith they saw these prophesies fulfilled as they knew they were to be a reality.
And yes, Jesus was present even before Abraham was alive. Yet that day was in reference to a seed from Abraham in which all the nations would bless themsleves. That seed proved to be Jesus. Very Happy

Gen 22:18 And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.’”

Very Happy

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Mattathias · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:04 am Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1970

Actual pre-human existence. Jesus had glory before he came to earth and he prayed to His Father to return him to that glory.

John 17: 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

Very Happy

_________________
Agape,
TBax

Mattathias · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:01 am Post subject:

My view is that Jesus did not literally exist prior to being begotten. (Socinian Christology.) If that view is correct, then the glory that was his before was glory in prospect. In other words, in John 17:5 Jesus was asking God to give him the glory that was promised to him in God's plan from the beginning.

james · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 753

Paul2,
I am not trinitarian nor oneness. Just as Armanianism and Calvinism go too far to one side or the other, so do these doctrines, and yet there is a correct path which consist of the whole of scriptures.
I believe that John 1:1 speaks of the Word being God in that a persons words are an expression of who they are, reveals what they are, and reveals their thoughts. For words come forth from a persons heart. Matt 12:34-37, 14:17-20. Christ being in the Bosom of God (John 1:18, Psalms 74:11-12) is the spoken Word of God manifestided in the flesh John 1:14. Christ reveals Gods thoughts toward us and who God is, for He is the very Word spoke forth from God. John 14:20,8:42,16:27-28, 17:8 plus many more speak of Christ coming out of, proceeding forth from, or being in the Father. You cannot take a persons Word and make a separate person for they are one in the same, the Word is an expression of that person. This is why I am not oneness, they do away with the speaker of the Word, and it is impossible to have a Word without a speaker.
The reason I am not trinitarian is in Matt 28:19 and Acts 2:38, Peter had the Revelation that the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is the Lord Jesus Christ, the only name by which we must be saved and that evey knee will bow to Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9-11. And if this is not the case then either Jesus said it wrong or Peter and all of Acts baptized wrong. For NO ONE IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE WAS EVER BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY GHOST.
Colossians 2:9 also concurrs with this for the trinity sets forth that the Godhead consist of one God in three persons. This is unscriptual for nowhere in scripture does it say Christ IS IN THE GODHEAD. Instead it plainly says IN HIM ( singular) dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead Bodily(singular). It is clear that IN Christ dwelt ALL the fullness of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in HIM (singular)bodily. If we are to believe the trinity then we make Christ an insane man suffer with a multiple personality disorder, having 3 persons within Him. Is this not what those of Jesus' day said of Him, they called Him crazy.This also is spoke of in Heb 1:1-3 Where it is written that Christ is the express image of the PERSON of God.
I will expound more later, for from Genesis to Revelations this is spoke of and we know Christ is looking for a bride to marry unto Himself, a group that will allow Him to be manifested to the world through them, and so I find it important to ask ourselves who or what kind of a God do we worship. Who is Christ? 1 Cor 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ." I believe He has to be more than just our Friend for He called Judas "Friend"

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1970

Mattathias,

I have spoken to a few Christadelphians who share your view in this. I don't believe John 17:5 allows for that understanding though. Very Happy

_________________
Agape,
TBax

james · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 753

Mattathias,
Does not John 8:58, 1Cor 10:1-9, Heb 11:26 point to the pre-existance of Christ?