McCain claims to know nothing about economics

45degreeN · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:55 am Post subject:

Medicine in this country will not just dry up and blow away if it is confronted with a single payer system. In fact there are very few instance were people pay entirely for their own medical needs. The whole system, even today, is based upon third party payers (insurance companies).

The medical malpractice issue is bogus. It is a legal and cultural issue and one that will not go away based upon who pays for the medical practices. It is a matter of blame our culture enjoys (blaming the other person.)

The real issue is not malpractice, but the idea of equity. What is fair. Back in the 19th century the forces of "public health" went around and forced the cities to pave their streets and build sewage systems. It was for the simple principle that the public had a right to safe and healthy living and the build up horse manure and other debris in the city streets was overwhelming. This country spent untold millions (billions is todays dollars) to do this clean up and it was done simply because it was right to do it. There were massive public health threats (diseases that ran rampant throughout the country) coming from the poor who just couldn't afford to lounge in the countryside while the summer heat melted the manure on the streets of the city. It was a scientific and medical necessity but it took the political will of a government to get it done.

The current situation is just about the same level of public conscience. Medically indigent people spend 3-4 hour waiting in the ER for issues that are properly cared for in clinics, it is simply the least efficient way of dealing with the medically needy people and far more expensive to do it this way than for the preventative care in a timely manner. When someone who has insurance comes into that same ER they wait that same 3-4 hours until it is their turn.

Those who are wealthy enough to afford insurance already subsidize the needy anyway. All of those unpaid medical bills of the poor are reflected in some part to the costs the insurance companies pay and all the rest of us pay for the medical costs. They don't simply disappear into the air. In actuality that subsidy is far higher than it needs to be if things were dealt with in an orderly manner and we were to go to social medicine rather than the system we have.

Let's not forget who the government is in this country, it is the collective people and the costs are spread out over 300 million of us adding far less per person than would otherwise be paid.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

45degreeN · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:05 am Post subject:

REVJP the streets being paved was long before the automobile was invented even the Romans had pavement.

The modern sewage systems which began to be built in the 1840's in Europe for the bigger cities and many of American bigger cities had sewers by the 1870's. As an example San Fransisco started theirs in 1875. Paris's sewer was already 380 miles long by 1878.

Public health took a long time to develop as an idea but by the turn of the 20th century it was well on its way to being one of the biggest governmental issues. There was little of what we know of sanitation as late as the civil war. The scientific idea had hardly emerged up until that point.

While the construction of these public systems might cause arguments as to who pays for it, and they were very costly, the tax base started high up on the income ladder and none of the poor were asked to spend for them at all.

Regarding malpractice insurance. The whole idea of paying for health care has been driven far from the responsibility of the individual and likewise the blame for mistakes. It is a cultural issue that will not go away regardless of who pays for the actual service. Look at what happens in other countries with malpractice insurance. Their rates are lower because the system protects people from incompetent doctors.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

45degreeN · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:10 am Post subject:

Where but America can a person get rich by suing a doctor because of some mistake. It isn't even the doctor that pays, it is the insurance company.

Our system is so screwed up because of our inability to accept responsibility. People blame anybody except themselves for the degenerative conditions they have, people frequently have unreasonably high expectations and when they don't get what they want, or after being warned lose out, they sue. It is a complex situation with many things that need to be fixed within it, no simple fixes here.

Still a health care system that cares for everyone equally is a modern "right" that has developed, we are just behind in accepting it.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

45degreeN · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:18 am Post subject:

Tort reform can come at some other time we need to benefit of this single payer health system first and we can deal with the more complex forms of tort reform later. They are not necessarily inexplicably tied together.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

The whole medical care system issue is inextricably tied together.

Going to a single payer system (the Government) without simultaneously addressing all the other parts of the issue is simply shifting who writes the checks and those who are suffering because of the costs will still be suffering.

No complex issue is resolved by addressing one part of the issue, that is why the politicians have failed to make any noticeable changes in the last 100 or so years.

To fix the medical care crisis in this country we must address:

Tort issues
supply and demand abuses
and taxpayer's costs to support any single payer system.

If we went about it your way, the government would run the health care system via astronomical taxes and mandates on the citizenry, and the costs of care resulting from the other aspects of the problem would drive the quality of care into the ground and the costs of the care into the sky...
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45degreeN · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:34 am Post subject:

If we went about fixing it your way nothing would ever get done and it seems you're of a mind to make sure nothing will get done. Are you so afraid of change?

So many other countries have proven that a single payer system works and works well.

It seems people are so locked up dealing with the "idea of socialism" that they don't really care for the real world needs of the people. They would endlessly debate the philosophy of the matter than actually do something about it.

America has already spent trillions of dollars on health care and will continue on into the future. It is only a matter of efficiently spending the money we do spend. A single payer system would fill that bill most effectively.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA