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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| SS wrote: | | All I know is that the people who keep ALL God's commandments are getting into heaven. |
Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
| ragman13 wrote: |
SS that is what the Pharisee believed in Luke 18: 9-14 |
Maybe that is what they said....BUT, they didn't do so.
How can anyone keep the commandments when a person is guilty of trying to kill you, as the Pharisees tried to do to Jesus, on several ocassions.
| Quote: | SS I think you need to spend some time studying Matt. 5:3.
| Quote: | | Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. |
1. The Greek word here is Ptochos it is used to describe someone that is completely dependent of others for sustenance.
2. To be poor in spirit is to recognize one’s spiritual poverty apart from God. It is to see oneself as one really is: lost, hopeless, helpless. Apart from Jesus Christ every person is spiritually destitute, no matter what his education, wealth, social status, accomplishments, or religious knowledge. |
ONLY by looking at God's Law, will anyone ever see their spirtual poverty.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then ? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
| Quote: |
SS you are preaching another Gospel apart from that preached by Jesus. |
Am I ?
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
^
QUESTION: Are these my words or Jesus Christ's ?
v
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[b]*************************************
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [/color]
| Quote: |
Christ has told us that we must rely completely on Him while you in turn are preaching that it depends on what we do. |
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ?
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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SS, you speak of the commandmants as if they are rules and regulations that if obeyed, will get you into heaven.
the commandments really are ways to love God and love others.
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, [b]but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
SS writes:
| Quote: | | All I know is that the people who keep ALL God's commandments are getting into heaven. |
What are the two principle commandments?
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
It appears to me that you love the brethern because of your zeal to proclaim the truth of God, and we are to speak the truth in love, correct?
Peace and Blessings to you SS |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | SS, you speak of the commandmants as if they are rules and regulations that if obeyed, will get you into heaven.
the commandments really are ways to love God and love others. |
Yes, I agree with you on that statement totally.
So then, why does the modern Christian ignore God's 4th commandment, in favor of attending church services on Sunday ?
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ?
| Quote: | SS writes:
All I know is that the people who keep ALL God's commandments are getting into heaven. |
What are the two principle commandments?
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
It appears to me that you love the brethern because of your zeal to proclaim the truth of God, and we are to speak the truth in love, correct?
Peace and Blessings to you SS[/quote]Men/women have no true concept of what Love is, because of their sinful natures.
God details what Love, is by the 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17.
To simply state: Love God, and love your neighbor tells most people nothing about HOW God expects that love to be shown.
And therefore God details HOW to love God and your neighbor.
The 1st 4 commandments is HOW, to Love God.
The Last 6 commandments details HOW, to love your neighbor.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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SS writes:Men/women have no true concept of what Love is, because of their sinful natures.
Different portions of scripture address different groups of people. What group of people are you refering to in you above statement? People who call themselves Christian, carnal people, or true born again servants of God? |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | SS writes:Men/women have no true concept of what Love is, because of their sinful natures. |
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
| Quote: |
Different portions of scripture address different groups of people. |
Yes and no.
God's way to gain ternal life is laid out in ONLY one way.
AND, that way applies to each and every person on earth, that was ever born.
| Quote: |
What group of people are you refering to in you above statement? People who call themselves Christian, carnal people, or true born again servants of God? |
Every one of these you mentioned in the above statement, has had a sinful nature.
The objective of the Gospel message is to conqueror that sinful nature and keep it under submission, by the power of Jesus Christ living out HIS life, in the Christian, to where that Christian does not commit any more known sins, in this life, here on earth.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
THAT is the goal of Jesus Christ, for each person....who claims to be a Christian.
Romans 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
ONLY by doing exactly what Jesus said will anyone see where they need improvements.........
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SS, a question; is it possible for a person to have outward actions that keep the ten commandments yet at the same time, have inward thoughts that violate the ten commandments? |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mark 2:26-28, 26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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SS, the new testament commandments do not make void the old testament commandments, they support and expound them.
you seem to be hung up on this Sabboth command, what do you think it means and how do you personally fulfill it? |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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SS writes: | Quote: | | The objective of the Gospel message is to conqueror that sinful nature and keep it under submission, by the power of Jesus Christ living out HIS life, in the Christian, to where that Christian does not commit any more known sins, in this life, here on earth. |
Do you think that is the whole objective?
Aren't you missing the main point?
While I agree with you, you completely left out the "why"
in other words for what purpose does God want us to live in freedom from sin? |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | SS, a question; is it possible for a person to have outward actions that keep the ten commandments yet at the same time, have inward thoughts that violate the ten commandments? |
No, I don't believe so.
Take the 10th commandment, for example.
To covet, must begin in the mind.
Also, Paul said: Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
The advertisements a person sees on TV, is all about coveting.
The whole purpose of which is to want something you don't already have, or need.
The 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath....is it kept by the Christian world, as Jesus kept it ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | SS writes: | Quote: | | The objective of the Gospel message is to conqueror that sinful nature and keep it under submission, by the power of Jesus Christ living out HIS life, in the Christian, to where that Christian does not commit any more known sins, in this life, here on earth. |
Do you think that is the whole objective?
Aren't you missing the main point?
While I agree with you, you completely left out the "why"
in other words for what purpose does God want us to live in freedom from sin? |
God wants us to be happy, and healthy.
Sin, prevents that from happening.
Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
119:166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments.
How many of all people, that call themselves Christians, believe these Bible verses ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | Mark 2:26-28, 26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? |
WHO is being refered to here ?
| Quote: |
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: |
Yet, man rejects God's gift...WHY ?
| Quote: |
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. |
Just another Bible verse where Christ, as God, claims the 7th day sabbath, as HIS Holy Day.
Christ, as God, never claimed any other day as special BUT the 7th day.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | SS, the new testament commandments do not make void the old testament commandments, they support and expound them.
you seem to be hung up on this Sabboth command, what do you think it means and how do you personally fulfill it? |
Because God made the statement:
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
Satan will attack this, the most !!!
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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SS writes: | Quote: | God wants us to be happy, and healthy.
Sin, prevents that from happening. |
Are you a follower of the health, wealth and prosperity gospel?
Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Phil 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
1 Thess 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
in 2 Cor 11:23-24 Paul states:23Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2 Tim 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
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Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and [b]for thy pleasure they are and were created.[/b]
Last edited by JonMarie on Mon May 26, 2008 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 727
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Nobby 
Last edited by JonMarie on Mon May 26, 2008 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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