1Cr 15:28

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 508

Vibrate,

You said:

JB, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree

You are probably right, but this isn't being done for TBax but for those who read and are at risk of being influenced by this heresy.

JB

Paul2 · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject:

Vibrate,

Vibrate · Little Hamster Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 77

Already dealt with that Paul. I am here to talk about reality, not pedantic nonsense. Divide and rule? Not here.
Then again, I don't want to seem to be judging. Maybe you have a real reason to ask; what do I know?
How about this, can you explain why you feel that I should consider this question you're asking to be important? What is it you want to know exactly, and why? That way, I can know if and how to answer. Make sense?

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 508

Paul2,

You wrote:

JB wrote:
With God (pros ton qeon).

toward god (pros ton theon)
pros = toward
pros != with
Jn 1:1 in the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God...

Matt 2:12 ...not to go back toward (pros) Herod...
Mt 3:5 Then went out toward (pros) him Jerusalem and entire Judea...
Mt 3:10 Yet already the ax is lying toward (pros) the root of the trees.
Mt 3:13 ...to the Jordan toward (pros) John to be baptized by him.
Mt 3:14 ...and Thou art coming toward (pros) me
Mt 3:15 Yet, answering, Jesus said to(ward) (pros) him...
Mt 4:6 Lest at some time Thou shouldst be dashing Thy foot toward (pros) a stone.
Mt 5:28 ...looking at a woman toward (pros) lust for her...
Mt 6:1 ...in order to(ward) (pros) be gazed at by them...
Mt 7:15 ...false prophets who are coming toward (pros) you in the apparel of sheep
...
1Jn 2:1...we have an Entreater toward (pros) the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

Paul

I am not sure what your point is here. Could you clarify?

JB

luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1123 Location: US

Paul2 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:25 am Post subject:

Vibrate,

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 508

Is Jesus God?

John 1:3, "Through Him(Jesus) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

A.) Jesus is the creator.

Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

B.) Jesus is the Divine reason or Logos.

Rev. 1:17, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.’"

Rev. 2:8, "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again."

Rev. 22:13, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

C.) In the end all will bow and worship Him.

John 8:24, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NKJV)

John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" See Exodus 3:14

John 13:19, "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He.

D.) Jesus proclaims the great , "I AM HE"

2 Tim. 4:1, "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge..."

2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

E.) Jesus is the Judge

How can you who are of the JW influence ignore such a great evidence?

I would continue but you continue to refuse truth to accept a lie.

When you knock on peoples doors and they pull out their Bibles, you show them verses in their Bible, to support your position, but when they show you scriptures from that same Bible,that supports their position, you tell them that their scriptures are in error and then you make claim the the NWT is the only accurate translation?

The NWT is heresy. One of you (JW"s) said that your organization translated the NWT from the Hebrew not the Greek. Since the oldest existing translation was a translation of the Greek (LXX) and your translation came from the third century A.D., I wouldn't trust it all that much.

The oldest translation in existence is the LXX. Yet because it contradicts your theology, you reject it but will accept ideas from a translation that found its origin in the LXX.

Yup That makes sense to me.

Sad

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1924

JB,

The fact is you make suppositions that are consistantly wrong and your supposed inconsistency of the NWT in rendering "ego eimi" proved that.

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1924

luvnlife,

You are confused and are now taking things out of context. Important points are being skipped over. Perhaps we need to simplify and go one step at a time.
First of all, I explained how there is only one God we are to worship and I explained how Jesus is a god. I believe Jesus is a god who is subject to the Almighty. Is that in harmony with scripture?
Deut 10:17 For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords,

Is Jehovah the God of gods???
Do you believe the scriptures here?

Let's keep this to two points. Answer this and ask something you would like addressed. Very Happy

Paul2 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:21 am Post subject:

JB,

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 508

Tbax,

You almost hurt my feelings. Not really. Rolling Eyes

You said:
The fact is you make suppositions that are consistently wrong and your supposed inconsistency of the NWT in rendering "ego eimi" proved that.
JB wrote: I haven't seen an argument that you presented that refutes my comments on eimi.

Actually, your ignorance of the Greek has really made you look silly.

ego eimi in the LXX and In the New testament are in the same tense, voice and mood. Do you know what that means? I really doubt it.

Let me give you a basic Greek lesson.

In the Greek you have stems and you have modifiers.
The stem is the word while the modifier changes it's tense, mood and voice. Here is an example.

λύω means I lose.
λύεις means you lose.
λύει means He loses.

What do we have here? Note something common in all three.

λύ Do you see that. That is the stem or the word.

Now notice the modifiers. O, eis, ei

They change the word from first person to second person to third person.

Hence eimi in the Old Testament or the New is the same.

You said:

Yes. I do not understand how you can make wild suppositions and be proved wrong and proceed like you are correct. Look up that scripture in any original language text and you will see what it says. I did and I am right.

You can't even come up with the Hebrew text that you originally referred to in regards to the translation of eimi. What's the deal? You seem to think that by making critical statements with out support that you can discredit others on this forum.

You asked:

The Bible Shows God created through Jesus. Does that make Jesus God?

Absolutely. Once again you fail to read the text. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I bet your next response will be the old 'elohiym argument. But before you do that explain how your organization can change the tense in the Greek (eimi) apart from proper Greek parsing. You are starting to sound like the Pope who believes that he has the authority to change the word. You seem to think that your organization has the authority to Change God's incorruptible word. That is quite presumptuous don't you think?

JB

luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1123 Location: US

Virbate · Rattlesnake Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 436

Yeah. He likes to quarrel. But don't say it out loud, or he might say, "there they go again, persecuting the true and faithful servant as always."

Virbate · Rattlesnake Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 436

Paul said:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1924

luvnlife,