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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Is God a Person or a Thing? |
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| Is God a person or a thing? |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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According to one of my Trinitarian profs at college, God is a thing - a corporation - not a person. My Unitarian classmates found this amusing. My Trinitarian classmates agreed with the professor.
I'm curious about the average man in the pew who professes belief in the Trinity. Would such a person agree with the proposition that God is a thing? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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If by "thing" you mean being then yes.
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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ragman.
Is a corporation a being? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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no
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. A corporation is not a being. A corporation is not a person. A corporation is a thing. I believe my professor and my Trinitarian classmates were mistaken.
God is not a thing. Is God a person? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes God has personhood. So how does a unitarian view God? Is Jesus God? If not who is He? Do you worship Jesus?
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | | Yes God has personhood. |
Is that the same as saying that God is a person?
| Quote: | | So how does a unitarian view God? |
God is a person. Jesus called that person his God and Father. I view him as Jesus does.
No. YHWH is God.
He is the uniquely begotten son of God. He is God's Messiah.
| Quote: | | Do you worship Jesus? |
Yes. I worship him with the honor and praise that is due him as the Lord Messiah. |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: |
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To keep things straight God=YHWH
There are 3 persons in God.
If you believe that Jesus is not God but you worship Him is that not breaking the 1st commandment?
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| ragman wrote: | | There are 3 persons in God. |
What scripture do you have for that.
Who was Jesus coming before here:
(Hebrews 9:24) For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.
Notice it doesn't say the Father, but God!
Why color the scriptures with confusing pagan doctrine of a trinity? 
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Agape,
TBax |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | | To keep things straight God=YHWH |
I certainly agree with this. But then we must ask, Is Jesus YHWH? I believe scripture presents YHWH as the God (and Father) of Jesus.
| Quote: | | There are 3 persons in God. |
That sounds to me like a return to the "thing" argument. God is a group? God is a crowd? God is a team? God is a family? God is a (good) gang? I can perhaps see those concepts in the post-biblical creeds but I don't see them in scripture. I see God presented in scripture as a person.
| Quote: | | If you believe that Jesus is not God but you worship Him is that not breaking the 1st commandment? |
The question is certainly a valid one but it assumes that I worship Jesus as God. I don't. I worship him as God's uniquely begotten human messiah.
Perhaps an example from scripture might help illustrate my point.
"And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king." (I Chronicles 29:20 KJV)
Was the congregation breaking the first commandment when they worshipped YHWH and the king? If they had worshipped King David as God then I could certainly see your point. However, that doesn't appear to be the case. |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Matt.
So are you just bowing a knee to Jesus like you would royalty?
That is quite a stretch using I Chronicles 29:20 to show that you can worship others before God.
Are you a UUA member?
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | Matt.
So are you just bowing a knee to Jesus like you would royalty? |
I think that's a fair analogy. However, I wouldn't place the royalty of this age on a level footing with the Lord Messiah.
| Quote: | | That is quite a stretch using I Chronicles 29:20 to show that you can worship others before God. |
I wouldn't worship anyone, not even the Messiah, before God. What do you think this passage of scripture shows?
| Quote: | | Are you a UUA member? |
No. Church of God General Conference. What is your religious affiliation? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Matt wrote: | Quote: | | I wouldn't worship anyone, not even the Messiah, before God. |
Is it not splitting hairs when you place the worship of anything other than God before or after God. You are replacing His worship with the worship of another.
| Quote: | | No. Church of God General Conference. What is your religious affiliation? |
I am a member of a church in the Southern Baptist Convention.
I agree with this statement. | Quote: | | God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We often think of the Father as Creator; Jesus, the Son, as Redeemer; and the Holy Spirit as Comforter (John 14:26 KJV) or Counselor (NIV). Yet all these are the acts of the one God, for the Three are One. This is the doctrine of the Trinity. |
http://www.cggc.org/BelieveGod.htm
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | | Is it not splitting hairs when you place the worship of anything other than God before or after God. You are replacing His worship with the worship of another. |
Do you think in the example I cited that the congregation was "replacing His worship with the worship of another" when they worshipped YHWH and king David? |
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