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144,000 Virgin Males? ... (Revived and Revisited)
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| Are the annointed 144,000 all male virgins? |
| YES! Only Male Virgins will be allowed in to heaven! |
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| NO! It's not a literal bunch of males & not literal virgins! |
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| Author |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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 Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
A major difference is, there is nothing JW's teach that I know to be wrong. That cannot be said regarding your position. 
| luvnlife wrote: | | God is worshipped at the church I attend. Jesus is revered as our Lord. How is that different from what is taught in your church? |
Well, for starters, my religion doesn't teach that Jesus is God but that he is God's son. Just like the Bible reveals. My religion doesn't try to fit God into a pagan concept and teach it as truth. I am not sure if baptists still believe that the soul is immortal or if the wicked burn in an eternal hellfire, if they do, well both come from pagan teachings. 
luvnlife. You know you are free to do what you want. If you want my approval with what you chose, it isn't coming. 
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1269
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | luvnlife,
A major difference is, there is nothing JW's teach that I know to be wrong. That cannot be said regarding your position.
| luvnlife wrote: | | God is worshipped at the church I attend. Jesus is revered as our Lord. How is that different from what is taught in your church? |
Well, for starters, my religion doesn't teach that Jesus is God but that he is God's son. Just like the Bible reveals. My religion doesn't try to fit God into a pagan concept and teach it as truth. I am not sure if baptists still believe that the soul is immortal or if the wicked burn in an eternal hellfire, if they do, well both come from pagan teachings.
luvnlife. You know you are free to do what you want. If you want my approval with what you chose, it isn't coming. |
I don't need your approval. There are things I don't agree with in your religion either. Like your belief in the topic at hand. You have blinders on and you summarily dismiss any opinion or fact on this topice that does not fit with your so-called belief. This one's a biggie too, isn't it TBax?
And just as an aside, please explain what the following scripture says and what it means to you:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
| luvnlife wrote: | | I don't need your approval. There are things I don't agree with in your religion either. |
Then why are you trying to convince me that your decision is OK.
It doesn't matter if there are things in my religion that you don't approve of. What matters is that there is nothing in my religion that I don't approve of.
I saw one of the reasons you disapprove of my religion when you called Daystar a Star. Talk about straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel. 
| luvnlife wrote: | | You have blinders on and you summarily dismiss any opinion or fact on this topice that does not fit with your so-called belief. |
This is the whole thing. I do believe the facts, but not rationalizations. You can believe the disorder, false teachings, and bloodshed of the many different religions in Christendom are God's will, but that is not the God I serve.  I serve the God of the Bible, Jehovah. 
Is my organization imperfect? Indeed. Have they made mistakes? Indeed. Do they take a pagan concept and say this is your God. NO!!!!! Basic clear concepts from the Bible shouldn't be substituted with pagan ideas. I believe you know this, yet are willing to ignor it for some reason. Making mistakes and changing is one thing. Making mistakes and clinging to them is quite another.
Rev 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter.
The so called "waters" of false religion aren't life giving waters, but poison.
Regarding Isa 9:6:
Jesus is a mighty god. But not God Almighty.
By Jesus providing that sacrifice, he bought back what our original father, Adam, lost. Everlasting life.
Jesus is that Prince of Peace. God installed him as king of His kingdom. What kind of conditions do you believe he will bring?
Are you going to start arguing that the trinity is true???
That is the danger of these false religions. They make what is pagan look acceptable. But it is your choice.
Just like the Pharisees didn't care about the proof that Jesus was the Christ, the leaders of your new religion don't care about the truth as revealed in the Bible and choose to believe the Pagan lie.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, 25 even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Spiritual fornication is more dangerous then physical.
2 Cor 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
The God and Father of my Lord is Jehovah. Who is yours? A 3 in 1 god???
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1269
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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TBax said: | Quote: | Regarding Isa 9:6:
Jesus is a mighty god. But not God Almighty.
By Jesus providing that sacrifice, he bought back what our original father, Adam, lost. Everlasting life.
Jesus is that Prince of Peace. God installed him as king of His kingdom. What kind of conditions do you believe he will bring? |
You still see it differently than I do. There is a part of you that believes in the trinity or you would not make the statement that Jesus is 'a God.'
God said 'there shall be no other Gods before me.'
This is the main issue I had with the church I was attending. They seemed to put Jesus before God. Jesus is Gods son, he is Lord, he is our King and will rule over us as appointed by God but he is not a God.
There is but ONE God.
The church I go to now prays to and worships God but shows reverence and respect to the son. That is how it should be.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
What I believe is no trinity. The Bible refers to others that are termed gods by God Himself. Like Moses, the kings and judges of Isreal, the faithful angels, and of coarse, the second most powerful person in the universe, Jesus Christ.
God works through these mighty ones (gods), But only Jehovah is to be worshiped.
Deut 10:17 For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords,
| luvnlife wrote: | | God said 'there shall be no other Gods before me.' |
That was in reference to the gods the nations worshiped. The Israelites would adopt these gods and worship them in place of Jehovah. A big NO NO! Yet the trinitarian God is a different God then who Jehovah is. Including Jehovah in the mix of the trinity doesn't make it proper.
luvnlife, you seem to be looking for teachings you feel comfrotable with. In reality you should be looking for teachings God approves. Just because you are comfortable attending a church that teaches a trinity, does that mean God approves?
I only am harsh because I love. I think you know where you should be. 
Take care.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1269
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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TBax:
I think you're focusing too much on a term. You yourself believe Jesus is a God. I believe in just one God.
Jesus is my Lord. He is my King. His Father is also my Father. Jesus is our brethren.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints
Last edited by Luvnlife on Sat May 17, 2008 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
There is a difference between being a god and being God Almighty. Do you know what the difference is?
The Bible acknowledges there are many gods, and some properly termed such, by God Himself. But only Jehovah is "the God" to be worshiped.
Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
luvnlife, tell me what the Hebrew word translated as angels is. I'll tell you. It is "elohim". Are you familiar with that word?
Ex 7:Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: “See, I have made you God to Phar´aoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.
Ps 82: 6 “I myself have said, ‘YOU are gods,
And all of YOU are sons of the Most High.
Here, God calls these men gods. Could that be true???
What was Jesus' take on it?
John 11:34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?
So if these imperfect men can be called gods, certainly the second most powerful person in the universe can be a god. The scriptures cannot be nullified!
Do you now beleive Jesus is God Almighty? I don't.
| luvnlife wrote: | | Jesus is my Lord. He is my King. His Father is also my Father and Jesus' Father. Jesus is our brethren. |
But who is your God??? Do you worship the same trinitarian God of that church you now attend? If you think minimizing the importance of God's identity is a small thing, that is your choice. If you think joining an assembly that worships a trinitarian God, which is not representative of the true God, is no big deal, that is your choice. I think you know better, but are rationalizing your actions.
Ex 31:2 At this Aaron said to them: “Tear off the gold earrings that are in the ears of YOUR wives, of YOUR sons and of YOUR daughters and bring them to me.” 3 And all the people began tearing off the gold earrings that were in their ears and bringing them to Aaron. 4 Then he took [the gold] from their hands, and he formed it with a graving tool and proceeded to make it into a molten statue of a calf. And they began to say: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.”
5 When Aaron got to see this, he went to building an altar before it. Finally Aaron called out and said: “There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.”
Look, they added Jehovah's name to what is pagan. Did it matter?
9 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “I have looked at this people and here it is a stiff-necked people. 10 So now let me be, that my anger may blaze against them and I may exterminate them, and let me make you into a great nation.”
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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?
If the Almighty God chose to cover his immortality with mortal flesh. So that he could come and speak face to face with mortal man, does that make the Immortal almight God any less God himself?
Jesus is the very Word of God. In the flesh.
But he became a man (son) of flesh to speak with all his (sons). But when the time had come for him to put off his mortal coat, he rose again to seat himself n his Immortal throne.
Jesus (Almighty God) as man (son) of God, became the mediator between himself and all of us. Because he became as one of us and so speaks for us himself on his own behalf for us.
So because we "see" the man of flesh we are unable to "see" the Immortality of who he is within the flesh.
And by our own eyes..we decieve ourselves.
And so Jesus cast off his mortality and showed us his immortality..and now we see "double vision".
We can relate to God as a man..because we see him in our own likeness and image, which is his own image and likeness which he created us in..himself.
And so God in the eyes of man is both mortal and immortal..
It's like we can't believe our eyes.. 
How can a man and a woman become one flesh..
think about that. I'm not talking by sexual relations..I'm talking heart, mind and soul?
How can two become one?
We see how Adam was one which became two because we can "see" the split.
But what we can't "see" is the two being made one.
So God Immortal Almighty..and God the Son in the flesh, became two..and we see the split. And we identify with the split because we see it in nature by man and woman.
But we can not "see" understand, acknowledge, how God the Father and God the Son are the very same.
God never left the throne..his word took shape and became man, flesh..and so the flesh spoke to the spirit..
and this is how the two are one..
They never were seperated. They always remained the same spirit even though the flesh became a divider between what we see and what we don't see.
hugs
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1269
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | TBax: | Quote: | | I think you know where you should be. |
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...And where is that? Please enlighten me.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1269
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet.
I love how you just pull out one or two verses to prove your position. Men are not God’s. Angels are not Gods. Both are His creations. The verses merely point to all that God has given us and if you go up or down a few verses, it tells us to give thanks and praise for the gifts that have been bestowed on us.
Exodus 7: 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
The Hebrew interlinear says: And he is saying YahWeh to Moses see you! I give you Elohim to Pharoah and brother of you Aaron he shall become prophet of you.
This scripture is assigning Moses power above other men but not Godship.
Psalms 7 refers again to the power given mortals to rule over other mortals, even kings of nations.
Hebrew Interlinear Psalms 82
I think you typed in the wrong scripture on John 11:34 as what you posted is not what that verse says.
God is my God but apparently, you acknowledge others. The church I am attending merely contends that Jesus is a part of God. He was, after all, begotten of Holy Spirit which is the very spirit of God. However, God is who is worshipped and glorified. Jesus as Gods son is revered and respected as he deserves to be and as God has commanded us to do.
We are not worshipping an idol.
Thanks for your concern, though I think you are the one who we should be concerned about as you believe in other Gods who are on the same level or close to the level of the God I worship.
Lone: I'm not quite with you on this one though since Jesus was begotten of Gods spirit and the two are in agreement or accordance with the other and Jesus came to do God's will, not his own, in this sense I do believe they are as one. I like the comparison you made about man and wife becoming one flesh. It fits with the relationship between God and Jesus as they are of one heart, mind and soul. In that regard, they are as one.
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
John 10:34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?
So if these imperfect men can be called gods, certainly the second most powerful person in the universe can be a god. The scriptures cannot be nullified!
| luvnlife wrote: | | I love how you just pull out one or two verses to prove your position. Men are not God’s. Angels are not Gods. |
Oh! I guess Jesus was wrong and the scruptures can be nullified.
What is the word translated as angels at Ps 8:5??? HINT:elohim a.k.a. gods!!!
Yes they are to give thanks and praise to the one over them. Who could that be????
Deut 10:17 For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords,
Is Jehovah the God of gods???
Do you believe the scriptures?
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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JB
Lion King
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 1048
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Tbax,
You quoted:
Deut 10:17 For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords,
What does this have to do with Jesus? Jesus wasn't a god except for in the new world translation which is a poor attempt at a paraphrase.
The same was in the beginning with God. Jesus had an eternal existence, not a created existence and here in lies your confusion.
JB |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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JB,
Deut 10:17 has to do with the conversation I am having with luvnlife.
The NWT is more accurate then other Bibles in it's translating of John 1:1. The Greek speaking people would have understood that Jesus wasn't "the God".
There are others who are refered to as gods in the Bible which Jehovah is god over. In the Bible, "god" is not defined as one who is to be worshiped. It basically means "mighty one". There were, or coarse false gods, that never existed that the nations improperly worshiped. But that isn't what we were talking about.
| JB wrote: | | The same was in the beginning with God. Jesus had an eternal existence, not a created existence and here in lies your confusion. |
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
Rev 3:14 “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,
Prov 8:22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.
_________________
Agape,
TBax
Last edited by TBax on Mon May 19, 2008 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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luvnlife,
At this point, it is really quite simple. You are arguing from a trinitarian viewpoint. Since, in the Bible, Jesus is called a god, even a mighty god, there are only two possible choices.
Either the Bible is correct and Jesus is a god who is subject to His Father, Jehovah, as Jehovah is the God of gods. Or the only other possibility is Jesus is God Almighty. It cannot be both or neither.
Make your choice.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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JB
Lion King
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 1048
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Tbax,
Yousaid:
Deut 10:17 has to do with the conversation I am having with luvnlife.
That may be true but you are on a public forum and since you misrepresent this text, I think that because I am a part of this forum, I have the option of opposing your teaching.
Jesus Christ was God not a god.
JB |
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