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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
   Posts: 6342 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: The 2nd Commandment |
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Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
gods:
H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Thou shalt have no other magistrates, angels, or judges, before me.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
hmm..
ordained:
G1299
διατάσσω
diatassō
dee-at-as'-so
From G1223 and G5021; to arrange thoroughly, that is, (specifically) institute, prescribe, etc.: - appoint, command, give, (set in) order, ordain.
angels:
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
mediator:
G3316
μεσίτης
mesitēs
mes-ee'-tace
From G3319; a go between, that is, (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor): - mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
what does this verse mean?
A mediator (go between) is not a (go between) of one.
But God is one.
Is one what? Mediator? go between?
If God is his own mediator then why is Moses placed in the role of mediator?
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
added:
G4369
προστίθημι
prostithēmi
pros-tith'-ay-mee
From G4314 and G5087; to place additionally, that is, lay beside, annex, repeat: - add, again, give more, increase, lay unto, proceed further, speak to any more.
because of transgressions.
The first commandment says:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and soul and might..that means with every fiber of your being. Love him with everything you got.
The second commandment says,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
And we see that gods are magistrates, angels, judges, messengers, pastors..etc..
Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
prepare:
H3559
כּוּן
kûn
koon
A primitive root; properly to be erect (that is, stand perpendicular);. hence (causatively) to set up, in a great variety of applications, whether literal (establish, fix, prepare, apply), or figurative (appoint, render sure, proper or prosperous): - certain (-ty), confirm, direct, faithfulness, fashion, fasten, firm, be fitted, be fixed, frame, be meet, ordain, order, perfect, (make) preparation, prepare (self), provide, make provision, (be, make) ready, right, set (aright, fast, forth), be stable, (e-) stablish, stand, tarry, X very deed.
Whatever this manna is, they are supposed to set it up, establish it, apply it, confirm, ordain, order, perfect, make ready, tarry..hmm.it
This is the bread which God sent from heaven and provided the people with for 6 days.
Manna is represented as the word of God. Andwe are told that God sent his prophets daily to feed them with his manna.
But something happened to the manna God sent them:
Exo 16:19 And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
leave:
H3498
יתר
yâthar
yaw-thar'
A primitive root; to jut over or exceed; by implication to excel; (intransitively) to remain or be left; causatively to leave, cause to abound, preserve: - excel, leave (a remnant), left behind, too much, make plenteous, preserve, (be, let) remain (-der, -ing, -nant), reserve, residue, rest.
don't leave any of it behind..don't let any remain.
Exo 16:20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
Exo 16:21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
melted:
H4549
מסס
mâsas
maw-sas'
A primitive root; to liquefy; figuratively to waste (with disease), to faint (with fatigue, fear or grief): - discourage, faint, be loosed, melt (away), refuse, X utterly.
the bread became fatigued or filled with grief and it fainted or became discouraged or refused to cause nourishment.
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, ((To morrow)) is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
so the daily bread is not to be kept over or left behind so it will faint or become grieved. they are to eat it with joy and thanksgiving. Because God supplied it due to their murmerings and their cries.
But, on the sixth day it is ok to let some remain, and it will be kept over for then next day to give them sustainence while God rests and they can rest..and evryone is full and happy and content.
Exo 16:24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
Exo 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it (the field) there shall be none.
Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
(Luk 7:24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
Luk 7:25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.
Luk 7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
Luk 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.)
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Exo 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
Now the manna is the bread God sent from those prophets who spoke the word of God to them in the wilderness. And they were to eat that bread daily and not let any remain until the next day. Because it would grow faint and lose it's nourishment. And when things got "hot" it would melt away.
But, on the sixth day God created twice as many prophets speaking his word, as a sure sign between him and Israel that his word would keep them sanctified in his word on the sabbath day, when no prophets would be sent.
And the prophets were until John and since then the kingdom of God has been preached.
And we are told that the manna which they ate in the wilderness will keep them..and that manna is within their bodies, sanctifying them by God's words he spoke through those prophets.
Those words are God's Words/laws written or become a part of us in our hearts and minds..
"you are what you eat"..
But now see, there is an "adding" to the laws because of transgressions. They didn't keep the words, they let them faint and fail and become weak and when it got "hot" or under persecutions or trials it melted away.
Then God sent angels or magistrates or judges and a mediator between man and God to erect those "new" laws because they broke the old one.
But all along the second commandment remains..
thou shalt have no other gods before me.
So God set Moses between himself and man so that man would not be able to seek the word at the Lord's mouth but through other gods whom he chose for men to come to.
I think Moses is the angel with sword who keeps the way of the tree of life.
His fruit or his people or those who follow his laws, are the very same ones Jesus says:
Luk 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
Luk 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
(let the manna lay till morning till it became wormy and no good, and fatigued and tired and melted away)
Luk 11:48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
The lawyers, judges, angels, magistrates, mediators, which were set up, established, erected, instead of God's word through the prophets whom he sent..
these are the gods that man bowed down to and worshipped.
Thereby breaking the second commandment.
If we break the second commandment..how can we keep any of them?
A lot of emphasis today is on the 4th commandment, but maybe we should start at the top and work our way down. Bet you'll find that all the laws were broken from the very first Law which was made.
Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God..(first)..and listen to His (voice)..with every fiber of your being.
Do we still set men up between us and God. Jesus came and tore down that wall making himself the mediator between us and him, himself.
Do we listen to God or listen to mediators placed between us.
The Lord himself is our High Priest, He is our Judge, He is our Lawyer, He is our redeemer, our saviour, our everything.
do we keep the second commandment?
hugs
lone |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
   Posts: 702 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi Lone,
I have no clue how you come up with the veses of Scripture you choose. Anyhow here's my take on it.
How do we as a Christian people let such things become our gods? When we think, "It's not against human laws to kill babies by abortion so it's ok with me." We forget God's laws and go by human laws as our guide to right and wrong behavior.
You don't mention the graven gods, but we still suffer the temptation to worship things. For many of us, material things become what we live and work for instead allowing the will of God to be the focus of our lives. I suppose we're all somewhat guilty of not following the 2nd Commandment perfectly. It's hard to do the will of God 24/7. |
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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
   Posts: 6342 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi cballard,
Jesus says that his word is spiritual. Paul tells us that the law is spiritual. And yet how we read the bible feeds either our carnal minds or our spiritual minds.
| Quote: | | How do we as a Christian people let such things become our gods? When we think, "It's not against human laws to kill babies by abortion so it's ok with me." We forget God's laws and go by human laws as our guide to right and wrong behavior. |
yes, we forget that the very root of the matter of all laws is spiritual. and the spirit of those making the laws.
Why do most women get abortions? Well, I believe the younger one is the more "fear" there is that they will be shunned or hated for what they did to get that way.
As the ages increase it becomes more of convience and "fear" that they will not have the capacity to raise the child themselves. And then we have those which are considered "mercy" killings, which if something is terribly wrong with the child, best to let that life end early than to have to live in pain and torment.
Then we have those who just don't want to deal wih the handicaps and would rather just put them out of their sights.
The law says that a woman has the right over her own body whether she will bear the child or get an abortion.
So now I ask you..is the law wrong because it gives a woman the right to choose..or is the correctness or error in the choice itself?
I could make a law that says whoever ends a pregnancy through abortion will be pu to death or made to serve a life sentence for what they did to the unborn child.
period.. no sway in that law. no room to make a mercy call, no room o take into consideration the child's wellbeing itself n the world. no choice.
Or to have a law that puts that burden of choice or th consequences of that choice on the one choosing.
I agree with the law that allows a woman to choose in which she has to bear her own conscience whether what she did was because of mercy or because or convienence.
Otherwise I make myself a judge and stone people to death for not choosing my way.
What we need to teach and to preach is not that it's ok to have abortions with no legal consequences..but rather that there are emotional and spiritual consequences one will face if they make a choice.
If I know or you know that you are going to have a child that will be born and live a life of pain. And there is no cure for this pain..would you rather have the child bear that pain all their life or would you rather have the choice to not allow that pain to happen at all?
Now I'm not talking about perfectly healthy babies who are able to thrive and live wonderful lives though adoptive parents or other means in which this child's life is taken from it for convienece and not for mercy's sake.
I believe all children have a right to life. But as a parent of that child I should also have the right to decide if the pain will be too overwhelming for that child if it is not healthy.
I consider this mercy killing. And I believe in that as much as I do putting an ederly person who is in pain and cries for release from this life.
So is it the law that is in error or the "motives" in which abortions are performed that's in error?
And the hearts or spirits of those which seek them?
| Quote: | | We forget God's laws and go by human laws as our guide to right and wrong behavior. |
This is true. We allow man's laws to dictate our hearts and our emotions, our knowing inside our very soul what is right and what is wrong.
No different then causing someone who is picking up sticks and stoning him for it. Do you believe that stoning someone for adultery should be stoned to death?
And if you don't, then you are going against Moses' law, but if you do then you are walking in God's law.
In God's law love, mercy, and forgiveness rules. Where under Moses' laws none of these were present.
So what are we to do? How are we to judge?
Are we to judge the law, or those who choose which law they are following?
Kids are kind of stuck in the middle. Accidents happen. I know, because I was 13 when I got pregnant. I know the "fear" of having your parents find out you got yourself in trouble. I also knew my parents loved me and they wouldn't disown me because of a mistake. But there are a lot of kids today that just don't know that.
Their fear over rides their conscience of doing right and wrong. And so the "choice" is pushed upon them to elliminate the problem before someone finds out.
Parents are not allowed to prove they love them and accept them for their mistakes. Other's make that decision for them. So now the "law" has become the parent. And the law determines how one should think and feel and choose.
So it's not so much we "forget" how to show mercy and forgiveness and acceptance and love. We are again being taught that mercy and forgiveness and love and acceptance have no place in God's laws. That the laws overrule our hearts and minds.
What we do forget or neglect to teach is the emotional and spiritual consequences of our actions. Which many a teenagers and adults suffer from today.
| Quote: | | You don't mention the graven gods, but we still suffer the temptation to worship things. For many of us, material things become what we live and work for instead allowing the will of God to be the focus of our lives. I suppose we're all somewhat guilty of not following the 2nd Commandment perfectly. It's hard to do the will of God 24/7. |
The reason I didn't mention graven images as in gold or silver or wood, is because first one must spiritually set those idols up in ones heart before they ever even fashion them with their hands. First they must conceive the idea and then put it into motion physically creating that image which was in their heart and mind to begin with. And so the root of the second commandment is "what's in your heart? and what's on your mind?".
cballard there is nothing wrong with material things. God gave us all things to enjoy and be comfortable with. To share with each other, or even enjoy for ourselves.
It's when the desire or need for those things outweigh our love and faith in God himself that the second commandment actually becomes the tenth commandment..the tenth commandment even can over ride the first commandment.
God says..Love me. With all your heart, mind and soul.
Love who I am, and who I am, and what it is I do.
And if you love me you will do the same things I do and you will do thm to others as I do unto you because I love you and you love me.
Then you have to ask yourself..If God is an all merciful loving God, full of forgiveness and kindness and love, why would he tell Moses to stone everyone that opposed him.
This does not represent the God I know in the NT. What this does represent to me is a misrepresentation of what God told Moses.
If Jesus says..Love your enemies, and Moses says kill your enemies..now I have to decide.
The choice is in my hand whether I will obey the law that says hate them, or the spirit in m that says love them.
I have to choose if I am commiting abortion out of fear for my child or out of fear for myself?
Whether the choice is in the child's best interest or my own..always there is a choice. And those who opposed Moses' law were killed. As those who walked by God's spirit were killed.
| Quote: | | I suppose we're all somewhat guilty of not following the 2nd Commandment perfectly. It's hard to do the will of God 24/7. |
Truly, the answers are in your own heart and in your own conscience. They lead you and tell you whether you are keeping the commandments of God or the commandments of men.
And it is hard a lot of times to love those who "offend" our conscience. And who "offend" our hearts and minds.
But we also know that most the world doesn't truly know that God is a loving, forgiving, merciful God and that he forgives mistakes and is willing to put them behind him if we "go and sin no more".
But most people today are still led in fear that God will never forgive you if you do such and such, and so they run and try to hide their mistakes so no one will see. And then they have to live with thir decisions believing that God will never find forgiveness for them in his heart.
And so here we are...
Showing mankind the truth of who God is. And we are supposed to demonstrate God's love and his mercy and his forgiveness by doing what he would do if he was you or I.
And that's a pretty tall order for sure. But if we Love God as in #1 commandment, and we do not allow anything #2 commandment to come between who we believe God is and what he says and how he operates, then by so doing we will automatically keep #s 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10.
Because God is Love. And the very foundation is built on that Love. The same unconditional ever present love he shows for me and you, he shows to all the world through us.
We are the parents who love the children even when they make mistakes. We are the parents that say to the children.."we understand you were frightened and scared and ran and tried to hide a bad decision..and we understand, that you are not unloved or forsaken and forgotten because you made the wrong choice out of fear for yourself.
We are the parents who love the children even when they are selfish and greedy and walk after their own wants and desires, which throw away perfectly good gifts not realizing the emotional and spiritual torment they are going to be putting themselves through in the future. And so even as the prodigal son/daughter returns home seeking shelter, we the parents should not turn them away, pointing our fingers accusingly God will never love you, God will never save you..
this is not true. But we will be judged by how we treat others. And whether we will forgive them, whether we will stop throwing those stones beause we are as guilty as them at times.
And the most important and I believe hardest understanding of all, is when a parent knows that their unborn child is going to be born in pain with no cure or way of easing their hurt, that in these cases, we do not batter them and call them cruel, when the intentions of the heart are in the right place. It's a difficult enough choice to make, they have to live with their conscience without feeling as though they committed murder when in truth, they avoided a hurting suffering life.
So then , the law is in our hearts and in our minds to learn and to know how to justly apply it in all things. If we judge all things according to the measure of God's Love, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, hope, longsuffering, and grace.
But if we put a barrier as in bias or prejudice, or if we only judge according to what we see and not what is truly going on in the hearts and minds of those who do what we say is against the law, then we ourselves are judging unwisely and unjustly..simply because we don't know what their motivation is.
So we set up prejudices and biases as our idols of worship, then we are breaking the second commandment in which we are striving to keep.
That's why I left out "graven images" cballard..
because the images that are raised up our "in ourselves".
And "in other people" who we raise up to lead us according to their ways and their laws..always putting something between God and our hearts and minds.
And most of the time the very idol that is raised is "fear".
It is what seperates us from coming to God in the first place. But if people know that God loves them with perfect love, as a parent loves their child, even when they make mistakes he is there to help us through it..
If they know it..then they will not fear and will be able to follow their hearts and not the laws of men.
And then maybe we will see hearts turn to God, and seek him for the right answers. And they won't seek clinics and laws to tell them and teach them what to think..they will already know.
This is my hope and my prayer..
for all God's children everywhere.
hugs cballard
lone |
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cballard Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
   Posts: 702 Location: WV
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So now I ask you..is the law wrong because it gives a woman the right to choose..or is the correctness or error in the choice itself? |
The law is meaningless in itself as far as a person's free will goes. Human laws involve the morals of a community of people. They do not necessarily reflect the God's morals. Everyone gets to do good or evil with or without human laws.
All I'm saying here is that a Christian should not think human laws make an action right in God's eyes. Life involves choices of good or evil. Any woman or doctor who choses by free will to end a life has made a wrong choice. Yes, then, there is error in the choice. Reasons don't matter. Martin Luther King said in one of his speeches, "It is never the right time to do an evil action." (Well, I may not have that quote exactly right but it goes something like that.)
Judging by motives involves looking into a persons soul which only the "jewler's eye" can see. I can add my prayer to yours. |
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