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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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One other thing I just thought of..
Judas went to the "judges" of the Law and told them he was guilty. They chose to look the other way. They did not even uphold their own law.
So Judas condemned himself and kept God's law himself.
They chose to let the guilty one go..and the guilty one took the law upon himself and hung himself.
He did not deny the law of God. He fulfilled it also.
he did not run and hide himself from punishment, but when no other would hold him guilty, he held himself guilty and condemned himself.
Good triumphed over evil, and evil destroyed itself.
Jesus delivered Judas up to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit could be saved in the day of redemption.
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Roster
Big Goldfish
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I love the way you view things Lone.  I think thats exactly what Judas did. He could not live with himself "good triumphed over evil". I do not believe Judas will be punished. I believe suicide is wrong, but think he really wasn't aware of what he was doing (acting out of human instinct as we inevitably do). Judas had to betray Jesus to fulfill the prophecy. If it wouldn't have been Judas, someone else would've had to have done it, and they would have felt sorrowful just as Judas did. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Mat 21:28 ¶ But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Jhn 13:36 ¶ Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
Jhn 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
Jhn 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The c.o.c.k shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
Jhn 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
Jhn 13:22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
Jhn 13:23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
Jhn 13:24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
Jhn 13:25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
Jhn 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [it]. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon.
Jhn 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Jhn 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
Jhn 13:30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.
Jhn 13:31 ¶ Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
Jhn 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.
Judas took the sop...willingly.
Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
I wonder if the sop Jesus gave to Judas and the sponge filled with vinegar they gave to Jesus have anything in common..
Jhn 19:28 ¶ After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Jhn 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth.
Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
thinking..
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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JonMarie
Bear Cub
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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45 writes: | Quote: | Forgiving Peter was something that Jesus did and I dont really need to do. Judas took the ultimate trip and did himself in, not allowing Jesus to forgive him. Probably thought that it was unforgivable for him to have done what he did, and he would be wrong(again).
Peter continued to be an ignorant fisherman. It took an academic (Paul)to finally bring the total message into the world. Paul's writing took 3/4 of the New Testament since it was so important. Peter more than anything is a prime example of how a person can still be less than perfect after being filled with the Holy Spirit. |
Doesn't the fact that Judas hung himself indicate that he still did not understand?
Luke 22:31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Didn't Judas' faith fail ?
John 17:12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
different forum
xxxxxxx writes: | Quote: | | I also believe that we are called for different things...some for different jobs and some for salvation and some even for destruction. |
Called for and used for are two different things. Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas would betray Him. God did not make Judas choose to betray, however in knowing that Judas would, he was utilized for Gods purposes.
Luke 22:21-22 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
22And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed! |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Mat 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 716
Location: WV
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| John 12:4-7: Then Judas the Iscariot, one of his disciples, and the one who would betray him, said, "Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days' wages and given to the poor?" He said this not because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief and held the money bag and used to steal the contributions. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | | John 12:4-7: Then Judas the Iscariot, one of his disciples, and the one who would betray him, said, "Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days' wages and given to the poor?" He said this not because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief and held the money bag and used to steal the contributions. |
Hi cballard,
I see the same argument when Jonathan says to Saul..
why did you refuse the men to eat the honey. For if they had eaten we have have won the battle and they would not have falen into sin.
Saul condemned any who went against "his law" that they would die. Even if that meant his own son.
Turns out it was his own son.
But the people saved jonathan that day. They pleaded for him and said will you have him killed because he did a good thing?
Now you get to judge for yor ownself. Do you judge that Jonathan should have been held to that law of his Father and killed?
Or did his father have compassion and mercy on him because the people spoke up for him, and Saul's forgiveness of his son is just?
You see, when Judas went to the Priests he was seeking forgiveness. But the Priests refused to hear his plea.
Now I ask you...
will you hear it?
Would you pray for him and would you forgive him knowing that the Lord hose him for this to do?
If God chose him who are we to deny him mercy and forgiveness.
The Priests didn't have it to give to him..but we have been given the authority to forgive one another and to find mercy and compassion in our own hearts (because that's where God's law is) so even now, knowing the whole story..will we still condemn him or will we forgive him?
We know why Judas needed the money bag. Maybe he didn't know and was kept in ignorance until that very last moment he said..What have I done?!
And then God made known to him the truth.
And now we have the truth..
so now we have to decide..what are we going to do with that knowledge?
Condemn or Forgive?
nobody's perfect that's for sure. And if we condemn him, we might as well condemn ourselves with him.
I truly believe Judas condemned himself and destroyed himself for the sake of the truth.
And any who's lays down his life for the Lord, will take it up again. They will be forgiven.
Otherwise why have baptism? Doesn't baptism represent our own suicide..so that we can destroy the works of the flesh? which Judas did literally but we do spiritually..
He literally removed that sin in his flesh by destroying it on the tree himself...otherwise he would have sought to save himself and run from his own sin and condemnation.
But he faced it head on..and we see the literal physical effect of what it means to put off the old man of sin (flesh) and walk in the new man (spirit).
But we judge by our eyes and not our hearts and that is why many can not find it in their hearts to forgive sinners, whom Jesus himself gave his own life for.
Father, forgive them for they "know not" what they do.
I believe Jesus was also talking to Judas..who "knew not" what he was doing.
Remember that Satan had entered into him and had darkened his mind. You going to blame Judas for something he really had no control over?
God puts people in certain places at certain times to fulfill his will.
And we are given the opportunity to choose whether we will condemn or forgive those vessels whom God uses for his purpose.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2543
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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JonMarie (IMHO)I think that Judas never really had any faith at all. He seemed not to even truly understand who Jesus was either(the divine son of God.)
It was Judas who held the treasure bag for the group of disciples, it was Judas who questioned the sacrifice of the expensive perfume and suggested that it might be sold for money. It was Judas who was a zealot and really wanted some military action.
His suicide was an admission that he just didn't understand anything at all and when his plans were foiled he killed himself.
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 716
Location: WV
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Lone said:
| Quote: | | You going to blame Judas for something he really had no control over? |
I don't belive he had no control. God cannot give man free will and at the same time deny him free will. It is a self-contradictory statement and therefore impossible even for God. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | Lone said:
| Quote: | | You going to blame Judas for something he really had no control over? |
I don't belive he had no control. God cannot give man free will and at the same time deny him free will. It is a self-contradictory statement and therefore impossible even for God. |
Hi cballard,
so then:
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].
Jer 18:5 ¶ Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Jer 18:7 [At what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy [it];
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And [at what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant [it];
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Jer 18:11 ¶ Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.
Jer 18:12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.
See They are denying the Lord that he has the pwer of the potter in his own hands..
so then when God says I do, we say, no you don't..
Lam 4:2 The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!
that means good for nothing..God's works are esteemed as good for nothing..that's sad.
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Now see, there is silver being cast into the potter's house. think about that..what's the potter going to do with that silver?
nothing..he has no power over silver or gold or clay or anything else his hands has made..right?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
No.
That's a lie. The potter has no power over the clay to make vessels for himself to honour or dishonour.
none whatsoever..
what do you think?
are we by design or just accident?
Gee, that's a whole different forum..creation and evolution..
Do you believe that God molds our spirits to serve his purposes..or do we have more power than God to oppose him?
If we believe that we have more power than God himself, then who does that make us...?..think about that.
So scriptures lie, God lies and all men are true..
I see that written here:
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
hmm..must be the wrong verse.. 
maybe we don't have freewill until we have fulfilled our purpose. And then we have freewill to serve him and from this we can fall.
But if we don't know whom we're serving how can we fall from serving if we don't know where we're falling from in the first place.
First you have to know where you are concerning your height or stature or rank before you can fall from it..no?
Judas didn't know his importance his rank, his purpose.
He had no freewill until his purpose was shown him.
And in that very instant that he knew..
Mat 27:3 ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw  that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that].
Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
rending unto Cesear what was Cesears and unto God what was God's.
Jer 18:7 [At what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy [it];
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Did Judas repent?
Did Judas confess the Lord before men?
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
Jhn 9:22 These [words] spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Come out of her my people..!
We are also told that we will be given into the hands of the enemy until God comes and redeems us.
No different then coming out of Egypt, Babylon, Jerusalem..
That's why God created a New Jerusalem..because the Old one was passing away. And the works of the flesh..their deeds which were shown for what they were, when Judas came to the Priests who thought they had the power to save, and proved they could not by their very words..What is that to us?..  see to it yourself.. ok
This was Judas's purpose..to show them up for what they truly were..theives and murderers, and idolators who cherished the silver more than the soul they should have saved.
But they could not.
So because Judas was made a thief so to get at the root of thieves..we condemn him, but of the Priests..well, we just let them walk on by..
ok
Sometimes God sends wolves among wolves so they will show their true identity..
He wraps sheep in wolves clothing to uncover their own sins.
But then, no..
He's not really the potter.. or is he?
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 716
Location: WV
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Lone, I'm not saying God is not the potter. Nor am I saying He is not all powerful. To say God can give people free will and then take away their free will on a whim is not saying anything about God. It's pure nonsense. It's just like someone asking, "Can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?" If you say, "Yes," then there is something He can't do. If you say, "No", then He can't do everything. It's just a logical contradiction. It's a type of paradox. To think that Judas did a good thing is simply wrong headed.
I think we can agree there is good and evil in the world. We all get to choose which to do. That's our human condition. Just because God creates a good thing out of a person's choice to do evil does not excuse the evildoer. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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hi cballard:
| Quote: | | I think we can agree there is good and evil in the world. We all get to choose which to do. That's our human condition. Just because God creates a good thing out of a person's choice to do evil does not excuse the evildoer. |
Here is the question..
do you believe that Judas "thought" he was doing a "good" thing by turning him over to the Priests?
Did they persuade him that Jesus was in fact the devil, taking the "focus" off themselves?
And if so, then did God allow Judas to have his thinking persuaded when he gave Satan authority to enter into Judas after giving him the sop?
Or do you believe that Judas was in fact doing it from an "evil" thought and so bargained with the "priests" to give him over to them?
Who did Judas see as telling the truth? Jesus or the Priests?
And if he was acting in accordance with the priests,
wait...
think about that real deep..
Judas thought he was doing a good thing "because" the Priests agreed that it was good.
So in who's eyes was Judas evil?
In the Priests who made a deal with him to turn Jesus over to them?
Or in the eyes of those who opposed the Priests to kill Jesus?
Now if the Priests were right and Judas turned Jesus over to them..then why..all of a sudden did Judas "know" it was wrong??
In the law it says to follow the commands of those who are in charge..
wasn't Judas keeping the law?
If you want to judge Judas you really need to look at the whole picture, before one can decide if he is guilty or not, depends on which side of the law one is on.
The Priests didn't consider Judas guilty, they let him go free..But God showed him who he really turned in ..and opened his eyes at the last sound of the trumpet..
yo, buddy..time to wake up and smell the coffee dude..
According to the law and those who were ruling it, he was not guilty and he thought himself doing the right thing. So in his mind he was not guilty in the laws of men, but God's law in his heart convicted him.
And because he heard, and saw..he repented and confessed..and so we are told, that he who does these things is saved.
But, no..
Satan is the ruler of the laws of men.
And Satan entered into Judas corrupting his heart and blocking his ears so he couldn't hear or see or understand.
And this was done so that the scriptures would be fulfilled.
It was already in the plan.
All I'm saying is don't be too quick to judge without hearing all sides of the matter first.
hugs cballard..
sincerely ((HUGS))
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 716
Location: WV
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Only God can judge the heart's of man. Why he stole money and betrayed a friend remains between himself and His creator. Judas's final action was murder even if it was turned against himself. Yet, there is no limit on the mercy of God. Blessed be God forever! I guess we'll have to wait and see how Judas was judged. It doesn't matter a lick how I think he should be judged.
Have a nice evening Lone. I enjoyed our discussion. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I did too cballard!
and you have a wonderful evening also..
God Bless
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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JonMarie
Bear Cub
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 622
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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45: | Quote: | | Judas just had no real understanding of who Jesus was (the divine son of God)and the sacrifice that paid for the sins of mankind |
I agree. A sin hardened heart blinds us to the truth.
Lone:
| Quote: | But, no..
Satan is the ruler of the laws of men.
And Satan entered into Judas corrupting his heart and blocking his ears so he couldn't hear or see or understand.
And this was done so that the scriptures would be fulfilled.
It was already in the plan. |
Why do you insist on projecting human reasoning into the mind of God? God knows all things, He knew the choices Jacob and Esau would make befor they were even born. God knew what Judas, of his own free will would decide to do. God did not make Judas betray Jesus, but in knowing that he would, was put into the place of circumstance to fulfill Gods plan.
Lone: | Quote: | so now we have to decide..what are we going to do with that knowledge?
Condemn or Forgive?
nobody's perfect that's for sure. And if we condemn him, we might as well condemn ourselves with him. I truly believe Judas condemned himself and destroyed himself for the sake of the truth.
And any who's lays down his life for the Lord, will take it up again. They will be forgiven.
Otherwise why have baptism? Doesn't baptism represent our own suicide..so that we can destroy the works of the flesh? which Judas did literally but we do spiritually..
He literally removed that sin in his flesh by destroying it on the tree himself...otherwise he would have sought to save himself and run from his own sin and condemnation.
But he faced it head on..and we see the literal physical effect of what it means to put off the old man of sin (flesh) and walk in the new man (spirit). |
We have to decide??? NO, We do not have to decide to forgive Judas, he is already dead. God will judge him in truth, we cannot.
Nobodys Perfect???? Do you really put yourself in the same category as Judas? You do realize that Jesus refered to Judas as the son of perdition(hell).
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Lone: | Quote: | I truly believe Judas condemned himself and destroyed himself for the sake of the truth.
And any who's lays down his life for the Lord, will take it up again. They will be forgiven. |
this is notwhat laying down ones life for the Lord is. Dying to self is dying to our carnal nature, our self will, not physical death, and yeilding to the Spirit.
Romans 6:11-14, 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Lone: | Quote: | | He literally removed that sin in his flesh by destroying it on the tree himself. |
No, he did NOT remove sin from his flesh, he died in his sin, having never put on the righteousness of Christaka wedding garment.
Matthew 22:11-13 11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. |
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