HEARING THE AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD?

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 514

Mtimber,

You said:

An audible voice? Not for me.

You also said:

It is not an audible voice, but a still small voice that I have learned to recognize because it agrees with the Word of God.

An audible voice; not for me. So if you heard God's voice you would deny it. Is that correct?

Secondly;

What is the difference between voice and voice? A voice is a voice. For clearly this is what you are suggesting. This statement seems a bit redundant doesn't it?

You said:

This is why we have to be careful to have a full knowledge of Gods Word and of His Character.

Are you suggesting that you have a full knowledge of God's Word? By the statements that you have posted here, I would highly doubt that you have a full knowledge of God Word.

First you capitalized Word. Are you referring to the Rhema or Logos of God or are you referring to the scriptures? If you are referring to the scriptures then I believe that Word wouldn't be capitalized. It would be small caps.

Here is a simple Greek study.

Rhema
Notice #1 (first definition)I highlighted in bold it for your convenience.

Also notice the source of this definition.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Transliteration:
rhema {hray'-mah}
Word Origin:
from 4483
TDNT:
6:69,505
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
word 56, saying 9, thing 3, no thing 3756 1, not tr 1

Total: 70
Definition:

# 1. that which is or [b]has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word[/b]
1. any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
2. speech, discourse
1. what one has said
3. a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words)
1. an utterance
2. a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative
1. concerning some occurrence
2. subject matter of speech, thing spoken of
1. so far forth as it is a matter of narration
2. so far as it is a matter of command
3. a matter of dispute, case at law

Notice: It isn't a written word but a spoken word. If you would like to continue this silly discussion I would be more than glad to address your confusions and help you develop a deeper understanding of the Word (word) You choose which one to use .

TDNT - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament

JB

mtimber · Lion King Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1216

Thank you JB Smile

Logos or Rhema....

I have a basic understanding of the concepts.

Now when does the Logos become the Rhema word of God?

And why?

Lone Smile

Hi sis,

That ignorant and unlearned quote....

Does it say ignorant of the scriptures in that text?

Mark Smile

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:

Hi Mark,
I suppose it depends on who is judging them ignorant and unlearned..
who was it?:

Act 4:5 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
Act 4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.
Act 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

we have the rulers, the elders, the scribes, the high priests and the kindred of the high priests..

so if you was a high priest and thought I was ignorant and unlearned..what would you be refering to, seeing I was preaching concerning the Lord?
concerning the very scriptures that I was preaching?

and where would Peter get this from?:

Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

I bet we can find it in the scriptures themselves. The very same scriptures the priests and rulers and scribes thougth they were ignorant of.

does this make sense?

or how about,
you have a classroom and I come in and take your textbook and begin teaching your class? now I never been in your classroom or heard it the way you taught it.
would you think I was ignorant and unlearned concerning your textbook?

if it wasn't the scriptures they was talking about, then what was it that they thought they was ignorant and unlearned about?

and of course the only reason why they believed they was ignorant and unlearned is because it wasn't the way "they" taught it.
amen?

see, the spirit taught them how to interpret the scriptures for themselves. that way the blind wouldn't be able to lead them in a ditch.
but without the spirit how can one interpret the sciptures unless they become like those they accuse of being ignorant and unlearned themselves.
Ye do err not knowing the scriptures..why?
because they didn't have the spirit or the word of truth in them.
and so they thought everyone else must be like them.
they just didn't like being shown up as ignorant and unlearned themselves, so they accused others of it first.
false witnesses see?
they must be serpents and snakes because they seek to decieve this people through their ignorance..
i hear the same argument all the time.. Rolling Eyes

hugs Mark
lone

mtimber · Lion King Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1216

They were regarded as ignorant and unlearned because they did not pass through the Rabbinical systems (I suspect), as Jesus Himself did not pass through them (remember when He was 11).

It was not ignorance of the scriptures, it was ignorance of their classrooms and systems of interpration.

So that means that they did not have any ignorance, which I thought was being implied in your previous post, of the scriptures.

They were conversant with Scripture.

But they did not receive the blessings of the Spirit in its fullness until Pentecost.

It is worth noting that Jesus taught of Himself OUT of the scriptures.

We need the leading of the Spirit, for they are the sons of God that are lead by the Spirit.

But those that are lead by the Spirit will agree with the scripture.

As the Spirit and the scripture will not disagree, as the Spirit inspired the men that wrote the scripture.

So those that claim the bible is a "dead letter" are in themselves dead, having not the Spirit or at very best being so open to be misled that the devil must be chuckling with glee...

We need both.

We cannot know the presence of God through His Spirit, unless we discern God through His word.

They will not disagree.

Unless we think God disagrees with Himself.

But He says He does not change...

So those that says He does, do err, not knowing the scripture.

Mark

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:44 am Post subject:

we are agreeing here.

The Spirit will not disagree with scripture. But without the spirit one is led by their own understanding of it. Like the Pharisees and such who taught it without knowing what it truly meant.

You can understand the spirit without the scriptures, but you can't truly understand the scriptures without the spirit.
That's why we can see the spirit of God in people who do not know scripture (knowledge).
That whether a person has the Spirit of God within him or not is not based on whether one knows the scriptures or not. Because the spirit is in the person himself.
Paul says it like this:

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Now charity it's the very Love of God or Spirit of God within us.
And unless we have this then what profit is there in all knowledge if we are not led by him to understand it?

and here:

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.

And we are filled with his Spirit and we come to know the LOVE of Christ which surpasses, exceeds, is above..knowledge itself.
So in order to understand the scriptures one must have the Love of Christ in him in order to see God's plan for us in the scriptures themselves.

You can have all the scriptures memorized and be able to quote chapter verse and appear very knowledgeably concerning them. But this is no different that how they was teaching them n the synagogue..
But when weare filled with the spirit then the spirit translates or makes known the true intent or spiritual truth written in them.

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 514

Lone,

Good Post

JB

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 514

mtimber

You said:
Logos or Rhema....

I have a basic understanding of the concepts.

Now when does the Logos become the Rhema word of God?

And why?

Jesus, as the manifestation of God, entered into the world in the form of flesh to make known the things of God. As Jesus walked with the Disciples and taught them, they gained insight and knowledge.

point: You can have knowledge but that doesn't save you. You must have knowledge revealed.

There were times when the Disciples hardened their hearts towards Jesus and actually became angry with Him. Some place along the line we see a transition. All that they learned from their teacher began as head knowledge but at some undetermined point became revelation.

Point: One can read scriptures all day long, but with out the Work of God, the Scriptures are just a book.

when truth is revealed in the Spiritual realm the Logos of God becomes in a sense the rema of God or in other words; through the rema of God the truth of the Logos is made known in the inner person.

Peter walked with Jesus for a season and one day the light came on.

(Matthew 16:17)And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal {this} to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

This is the rema of God at work. Revealing His purpose and call in and for our lives.

JB

holly102869 · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:44 am Post subject:

Hey Everyone,

Don't we all hear the voice of God. Most choose not to hear. I have heard him several times and I am just learning to understand the scripture. I have never had conversations forsay with him in tonges. But he has gotten my attention several times. Some in dreams, others like when a parent talks to an impatient child and then at times very loving and greatful.

We all have the ability to hear him speak, We just need to learn how to listen for his words. God speaks to us in many different ways watch for the signs and signals he sends you.

Many of you may not believe that but think back over our lives and look at all of the things you might have missed when God spoke to you in one form or another.

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:57 am Post subject:

Hi JB,

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 514

holly102869

Holly102869, Thanks for the post. I am not sure whether God speaks in an audible voice to every one but I know that He does speak . I believe that You are right in that we need to learn to wait and listen.

Thank You for the Post

JB

JB · Young Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 514

Lone,
Thanks for the post. You certainly make thought provoking comments.

You said:
I see this as the beginning of the judgment process.

I believe that there are two judgments. One for the saved and one for the unsaved. But what I found thought provoking was your insight into the time that the judgment begins. This isn't the first time that your thoughts have spoken to my heart.

God Bless and Keep seeking the King

JB

JonMarie · Rattlesnake Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 440 Location: Pa.

Lone, you wrote:

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:

Hi JonMarie,

just thinking out loud here.. Very Happy

JonMarie · Rattlesnake Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 440 Location: Pa.

God made Christ to be sin for us, who knew no sin..
Christ took upon Himself the sin of the world when He was on the cross, and said at this point Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Gal 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Isa 64 is the cry of Isiah on the behalf of the stiffnecked decendents of those who were freed from egypt, if you read the chapter in context, Isa is pleading to God on their behalf.

Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.

God did not make His people sin, and He is just and He knows all things, God executes wrath on whom He will, when He desires. In His infinate wisdom, God can either by (consequences or mercy) draw us back to Himself.

Return for thy servants' sake -(Isiah your servent)
the tribes of thine inheritance- (the rebellious people of Israel)

Exo 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Lone, Do you see any evidence in the entire book of Exodus where that Pharaoh was inclined to any degree to serve the true and living God even after he witnessed miracle after miracle? Doesn't it look like God gave Pharaoh more of what he wanted?

Also see Romans1:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: Lone:

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:55 am Post subject:

Gen 33:1 Jacob saw Esau coming with 400 men. So he divided the children among Leah, Rachel, and the two slaves.
Gen 33:2 He put the slaves and their children in front, Leah and her children after them, and Rachel and Joseph last.
Gen 33:3 He went on ahead of them and bowed seven times with his face touching the ground as he came near his brother.
Gen 33:4 Then Esau ran to meet Jacob. Esau hugged him, threw his arms around him, and kissed him. They both cried.
Gen 33:5 When he saw the women and children, Esau asked, "Who are these people here with you?" "The children God has graciously given me, sir," Jacob answered.
Gen 33:6 Then the slaves and their children came forward and bowed down.
Gen 33:7 Likewise, Leah and her children came forward and bowed down. Finally, Joseph and Rachel came forward and bowed down.
Gen 33:8 Then Esau asked, "Why did you send this whole group of people and animals I met?" He answered, "To win your favor, sir."
Gen 33:9 Esau said, "I have enough. Keep what you have, Brother."
Gen 33:10 Jacob said, "No, please take the gift I'm giving you, because I've seen your face as if I were seeing the face of God, and yet you welcomed me so warmly.
Gen 33:11 Please take the present I've brought you, because God has been gracious to me and has given me all that I need." So Esau took it because Jacob insisted.
Gen 33:12 Then Esau said, "Let's get ready to go, and I'll go with you."
Gen 33:13 Jacob said to him, "Sir, you know that the children are frail and that I have to take care of the flocks and cattle that are nursing their young. If they're driven too hard for even one day, all the flocks will die.
Gen 33:14 Go ahead of me, sir. I will slowly and gently guide the herds that are in front of me at their pace and at the children's pace until I come to you in Seir."
Gen 33:15 Esau said, "Then let me leave some of my men with you." "Why do that?" Jacob asked. "I only want to win your favor, sir."
Gen 33:16 That day Esau started back to Seir.
Gen 33:17 But Jacob moved on to Succoth, where he built a house for himself and made shelters for his livestock. That is why the place is named Succoth [Shelters].

Gen 35:28 Isaac was 180 years old
Gen 35:29 when he took his last breath and died. He joined his ancestors in death at a very old age. His sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

It may be a simple way of looking at things JonMarie, but this is how I see the whole plan in the bible working.

Every story in the bible is a Big picture from beginning to end. And each new story builds on the last story and adds more details to it.
what I mean is, in the story of Jacob and Esau, we can see the whole picture from beginning to end in that one story. The things that follow are the details of that same story, more indepth, more magnified as we read from step by step what led to their enmity, how both sides are guilty and in the end there is peace between them.
The wars and things we read taking place are the details of the big picture of what each side must go through to get to that end result.

Now Jacob as well as Esau both get punished for their sins no doubt. For their is none righteous no not one. And for God to punish one and not the other when both are guilty would not be rgheous judgment..would it?
And we can see in the details how even Jacob gets punished for his sins too.

Mic 3:8 But I am filled with the power of the LORD'S Spirit, with justice, and with strength. So I will tell the descendants of Jacob about their crimes and the nation of Israel about its sins.
Mic 3:9 Listen to this, you leaders of the descendants of Jacob, you rulers of the nation of Israel. You despise justice and pervert everything that is right.
Mic 3:10 You build Zion on bloodshed and Jerusalem on wickedness.
Mic 3:11 Your leaders exchange justice for bribes. Your priests teach for a price. Your prophets tell the future for money. But they rely on the LORD when they say, "After all, the LORD is with us. Nothing bad will happen to us."
Mic 3:12 Because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a pile of rubble, and the temple mountain will become a worship site covered with trees.

so see neither side gets away without punishment.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Now,today, who is Esau?
and are the sons of Esau held guilty according to their father's sins?

Eze 18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

and we have:
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

which brings us to:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

So now what of Jacob and Esau in particular?
Does the big story show us the end result of what God set forth to do?

Gen 33:4 Then Esau ran to meet Jacob. Esau hugged him, threw his arms around him, and kissed him. They both cried.

This is interesting verse:

Gen 33:10 Jacob said, "No, please take the gift I'm giving you, because I've seen your face as if I were seeing the face of God, and yet you welcomed me so warmly.

according to this verse..what did God's face look like to Jacob? Mad, angry, holding a grudge,..and yet,
you welcomed me so warmly.

And after this they come together in peace and bury their father.

When we sin does God look down on us like what Jacob saw in Esau's face?
And yet, if we come to him to repay our debts as Jacob offered to give to Esau..does he reckon the bill payed because his grace is sufficient..but will nevertheless accept our gifts of humbleness and a broken and contrite heart and have mercy and welcome us warmly also?

That's how I understand the bible JonMarie.
That all that went before is forgiven. But we keep dragging up other peoples old sins which God has already cleared. And the reason we have these stories is to show us who we are, where we came from, how we got where we are today, and where we're headed.
But many do not hold to hope and mercy and forgiveness and that Christ took upon himself the sins of the world and destroyed the curse which bound us.

All people sin. And it is God who judges. And it is God which justifies or condemns.
But his ways are not our ways, and we can't always see the end from the beginning, because we lose faith that God is able to have everything come out right in the end.

Truly after having read the bible through once, one should be able to see how mankind fell, the trials and tribulations we go through because of that fall, and how God sent his son to save us all and to pick us back up again.
and then walk away..knowing..that the plan is laid, the foundation sure, and the end result is good.
and truly put all your worries and cares on him, because he knows what he's doing.. Very Happy