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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2189
Location: WI USA
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | SS, do you think God stands up there in heaven with a great big score card just waiting to jump on the opportunity of one of us messing up or making a mistake or failing the test ? So He could get His big God eraser and erase our name from the Lamb's Book of Life? |
I think God has kept up with technology and no longer writes in a book but keeps all the names in a database on His computer. To remove someone, all He has to do is highlight their name and click on "Smite"
| JonMarie wrote: | | Do you have children? were/are you a loving father? |
Great questions. And that is a great point. Is God to us a loving Father or angry judge? |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3188
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | I think God has kept up with technology and no longer writes in a book but keeps all the names in a database on His computer. To remove someone, all He has to do is highlight their name and click on "Smite" |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | SS, do you think God stands up there in heaven with a great big score card just waiting to jump on the opportunity of one of us messing up or making a mistake or failing the test ? So He could get His big God eraser and erase our name from the Lamb's Book of Life? |
God is in the process of trying to save everyone for heaven.....BUT, He needs the proof to do so !
And only WE can provide the evidence, that we are 'safe to save'.
God's Judgment Day will take EVERYTHING into account......
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Eccl. 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
| Quote: |
Matt 11:28-30
28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. |
Yes, and to this is added.....
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
| Quote: |
Do you have children? were/are you a loving father? Did you lay in wait to pounce on the opportunity of one of you children messing up ? or did you lovingly correct them? God loves us so much more than any earthly father could and He is patient and longsuffering toward us. David messed up big time and suffered the consequences(his child died) and yet God referred to David as a man after Gods own heart. |
Yes, King David finally realzed that to follow God's commandments was the ONLT way to peace of mind and body.....
Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
119:166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments.
| Quote: |
He came that we could have life and have it more abundantly. |
Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
| Quote: |
It is not about pass or fail tests-(although they demonstrate our need for Him)
It is about a loving relationship between the created and the Creator.
Jesus was tempted in order to show us how to defeat temptation.(by the sword of the Spirit)(part of the armour of God)
He wants us to follow His example, because He loves us and wants what is best for us. |
The Tests, God brings to us is for our benefit.
It is to show us where we need inprovement in our Christian living standards.
| Quote: |
PS if I am wrong about you, please forgive me, it is how you come across to me. |
Dont worry about me.
Every person who brings out facts found in God's word, is going to run into opposition.
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God Bless you dear brother
PPS Does Matthew 6:15 apply?
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. |
It is the duty of every true Christian to show their fellow man where they need inprovement......
As Paul once said:
Galations 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth ?
God's Judgment Day, is part of the Gospel message ....which very few people in the Christian world, want to understand. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: |
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SS, I do not disagree with any of your quotes from scripture. How could I?
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
I confess that John(s) are my favorite books.
2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
Psalm 104:34
O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psalm 119:97
Matthew 22:11-14
11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14For many are called, but few are chosen.
SS, do you agree the wedding garment is the righteousness of Jesus Christ and that we are required to put it on.
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Do people accuse you of being legalistic?
May I humbly suggest that you live here(Psalm 119) for awhile(meditate on)
some excerpts from Psalm 119
159Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness.
162I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.
163I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.
164Seven times a day do I praise thee because of thy righteous judgments.
165Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
167My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly.
174I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Psalm 19:7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
1 Cor 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Psalm 45:7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
sorry for the long post, I could go on and on
one last thing, I can't resist
Jer 29:11-13
11For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
12Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Peace and grace to you SS. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | 174I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Psalm 19:7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
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Is there a person on this forum who agrees with these Scriptures ? ( besides me, of course). |
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mtimber
Lion King
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1216
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I am with you SS.
Ignore the mockers.
The point is very simply put like this Jonmarie 
We put on the robe of righteousness by faith.
It is a gift.
And we keep it on by faith.
If we willfully sin, we take the robe off again.
And Jesus provides repentance so that we can put it back on.
The part where most of our mocking friends on this board get confused (hi to you all by the way), is that they think that the robe will stay on no matter what they do.
Yet a simple question is this.
If I put on the robe of righteousness and then kill a child, will I still be saved?
Or commit adultery?
Or lie?
Or steal?
Or ignore/break the Sabbath?
Worship and idol?
Take the Lords name in vain?
Put money before God?
Why do some think that they will be allowed to keep the robe on, if they have covered it in filth?
Shame on you that even would allow such a thought in your minds.
Do you not know the value of the robe you have been given.
Why not exersize some faith and recieve Gods promises and the New Covenant instead of spreading the unbelief that says we cannot walk with God in obedience...
Mark |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2189
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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We are always better off considering the context, and understanding the whole of what is being said, rather than lifting a statement out of context and asking others whether they believe an interpretation taken out of context.
Psalm 19 | Quote: | 1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. |
"3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,"
Compare these verses with these:
Romans 10:18
| Quote: | | But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. |
Colossians 1:5-7 | Quote: | 5For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: |
These verses are about the preaching of the gospel by the apostles and those in the early church. The Psalmist says "in them hath He set a tabernacle for the Sun". Can it be more clear? The Psalmist is prophesying of the early church and the preaching of Christ in all the world.
The Psalmist then says this Sun is as a bridegroom! Surely we know who that is!
Then the Psalmist in verse 7 says the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Christ is the end of the law. He is the Word made flesh. It is He who is perfect, converting the soul.
Silver Surfer, I agree with the scripture you quoted with all my heart. It makes praise well up in me. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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mtimber writes: | Quote: | We put on the robe of righteousness by faith.
It is a gift.
And we keep it on by faith.
If we willfully sin, we take the robe off again.
And Jesus provides repentance so that we can put it back on. |
Hebrews 6:
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
| Quote: | | And we keep it on by faith. |
Please explicitly define "faith" in this paticular context.
Jesus came to save us from our sins? or to save us from the consequences of our sins?
Rock of Ages, cleft for me... let the water and the blood, from Thy wounded side which flowed, be of sin a double cure, save from wrath and make me pure.
Matthew 22:11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
( I suppose this was one of those moments when he took it off?)
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Zathrus writes: | Quote: | | We are always better off considering the context, and understanding the whole of what is being said, rather than lifting a statement out of context and asking others whether they believe an interpretation taken out of context. |
Thank you!, no one can disagree with that! |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | Zathrus writes: | Quote: | | We are always better off considering the context, and understanding the whole of what is being said, rather than lifting a statement out of context and asking others whether they believe an interpretation taken out of context. |
Thank you!, no one can disagree with that! |
Jesus Christ might !
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus Christ said these words.....HE did not, quote all the context of where HE picked these words from......
"IF you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15)
NOW the context of where HE got those words.......
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. |
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JB
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 506
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Silver Surfer,
John 14:15,
If ye love me (ean agapate me). Third-class condition "if ye keep on loving me."(present active subjunctive, same contract form as indicative)
Ye will keep (thrhsete). Future active of threw, not aorist imperative thrhsate (keep) as some MSS. have.
Silver, you will find that some Biblical texts render this text as keeping and others render it as threw.
What this text attempts to imply is, if you keep on loving Me, you will through continued love prevent disobedience.
JB |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JB wrote: | Silver Surfer,
John 14:15,
If ye love me (ean agapate me). Third-class condition "if ye keep on loving me."(present active subjunctive, same contract form as indicative)
Ye will keep (thrhsete). Future active of threw, not aorist imperative thrhsate (keep) as some MSS. have.
Silver, you will find that some Biblical texts render this text as keeping and others render it as threw.
What this text attempts to imply is, if you keep on loving Me, you will through continued love prevent disobedience.
JB |
Yes Amen JB!
If we keep the first commandment..then all others are kept.
We do not murder, we do not steal, we do not commit adultery, we do not covet others goods or wives or anything that is thy neighbours, we honour our parents, we do not make idols of men or any graven thing and put them before God..
and
we keep the Sabbath of the Lord by doing his works and not our own.
Loving our neighbours, our enemies, helping, praying, healing..these are the works which we keep on his sabbath day.
And so if we kep on keeping the Love of God in our hearts and minds and soul..we can not sin. We can not break any laws, because it is not in us to do so.
We don't want to do these things anymore.
The "desire" to sin has been removed.
Hugs
lone |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2189
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Galatians 5 | Quote: | 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2189
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to address this:
| Silver Surfer wrote: | Jesus Christ might !
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus Christ said these words.....HE did not, quote all the context of where HE picked these words from......
"IF you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15) |
Brother Surfer, firstly you are actually defending the practice of quoting scripture out of context here. That in itself tells us much about the validity of this argument.
But secondly, when Jesus quoted or alluded to the scripture, it was not so that He could twist its meaning, makng it say something that the original author, and the Holy Spirit Who inspired him, did not mean. Adventists, OTOH, have not studied their scriptures as well as Jesus, or even others on these boards, and often quote small portions of scripture trying to support their doctrine when the very passage that they quote from refutes the Adventist doctrine they are promoting.
There's a lot to be said for keeping things brief and to the point. Certainly that's what Jesus did. But He had done his homework. Adventism has not. And those He spoke His words to would have recognized, as you did, what part of scripture Jesus was quoting from. But because He taught with power and authority from God, His words were spirit and life.
In the very statement "If you love me, you will keep my commandments", Jesus spoke in the person of God. There's a revelation right there.
And the same author who wrote this wrote in his epistle the new commandment that the disciples had been given by Jesus - to love one another. These words are spirit and life. |
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JonMarie
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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SS, you seem to be focused on the ten commandments of the OT, to the exclusion of the commands of Christ in the new testament.
The OT commands deal with outward actions mostly, while the NT commands go beyond that and deals with the underlying attitudes of the heart. You give the appearance of ignoring them.
Jesus commands us to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. |
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