Where does Bible teach this?

Pete · Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Where does Bible teach this?

Where does the Bible teach this?

"The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Corundum". Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."

According to the Roman Church, your salvation is dependent upon accepting this statement. If you don't believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin her entire life you will go to hell, and apparently, the popes do not feel the need to back this statement up with Biblical evidence.

holly102869 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:56 am Post subject:

Does the scripture say that she gave birth to other children? Jesus speaks of brothers but are they not apostles.

Furthermore don't ever place your life it the ways of man. Place them in the words of God and in Jesus.

Remember the RCC believes that Mary was also born of immaculate conception and she was also born without sin. Only a sinless mother could give birth to a perfect child called the Christ.

My husband is Catholic and I went through RCIA in the church to learn why he believes some of the things he does. However for certain reasons I could not enter the faith, as of yet anyway. I understand alot about them now but am not sure of many things for your same reason. Where is it written?? Ask a priest and he will tell you it is not in the Bible. That not everything is. At least that is what I was told.....

My advice pray and ask the one that knows the truth.
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Holly
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For only you can Save yourself.

JB · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 737

holly102869

Mark 3:3
There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

Note the Greek rendering.

Transliteration:
adelphos {ad-el-fos'}
Word Origin:
from 1 (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
TDNT:
1:144,22
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
brother 346

Total: 346
Definition:

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman

It wasn't Jesus' countrymen that had the authority to put Him away but his family. Jesus' Mother and Brothers came to take Him away because they thought that He had lost His mind.

The answer, with out question, "is yes Jesus had brothers."

JB

45degreeN · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:42 am Post subject:

The immaculate conception is certainly one of the many points that separates the protestants from the Catholics. It is the Catholics who hold that their traditions are just as valuable as scripture for the salvation of the saints. Even if it leads them to such illogical conclusion as their Marion worship.

Scripture tells us that we have a connection to almighty God through Jesus Christ. The Catholics tell us that we need additional intercessors (like Mary and the other saints) to ask God in our stead because somehow Jesus is busy or just doesn't care anymore about us. That Jesus cant or wont listen to our prayers. This is based upon pagan religions and has been included in the Roman Church out of these pagan sources it has no basis in scripture.

The Apostle Paul wrote that traditions make void the word of God.
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holly102869 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:04 am Post subject:

JB,

You Wrote:

JB · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 737

holly102869

adelphos {ad-el-fos'}
Word Origin:
from 1 (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

Who are my Mother and My brothers. This was the question Jesus asked. As a connective participle we see that Jesus was referring to "from the womb" or brothers from the womb.

This is about as close as you will get to this one.
Wish I could help more.

JB

45degreeN · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:20 am Post subject:

The most relevant scripture is Matthew 12:46-50

Pete · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

Matthew 12:46 – 50; While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
46 “While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? And who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold, my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and my sister, and mother.”

Romans 8:14; “For as many as are led by the Spirit of god, they are the sons of God.”

The reason for Jesus making this statement at all is to show a distinction between blood family relationships, and spiritual family relationships. So obviously, he is making a comparison between his own blood brothers and sisters, and his spiritual family members. His mother Mary and his brethren that wanted to speak with Jesus were obviously his earthly family, all of which were Mary’s children. She never remained a virgin all her life, but had a large family.

Roman Catholic teaching is, as usual, false. Mary was not a perpetual virgin all her life, but had a number of
children born to her.

cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 716 Location: WV

Pete wrote in response to Jesus's saying whoever does the will of my Father is my brother, my sister, my mother:

45degreeN · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:30 am Post subject:

Is there some difference between adopted sons and daughters and "begotten" sons and daughters? This relates to our "standing " not our condition. We can stand before the King as adopted sons but that hardly is the same as begotten sons. Jesus as the only begotten of the father, we as adopted sons just don't have the same privileges and power at this time, (except as a matter of faith)
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cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 716 Location: WV

45degreeN wrote:

Pete · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 716 Location: WV

Pete, I'm sorry I led you off the topic.

Do you deny that Mary is the Mother of God? If so, you are either saying Jesus is not God, or that Jesus is two persons-one human and one divine. Where do you find Biblical truth for that belief?

Mattathias · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:

Mary is the mother of Jesus. (She conceived him in her womb.)

God is the father of Jesus. (He begot him by performing a miracle in the womb of the virgin. Jesus was brought into being without the involvement of a human father.)

A mother and father bring a child into existence or being. (In the case of Jesus this was not done in the manner that children are normally produced. Jesus was uniquely begotten by God. See the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke.)

God has eternally existed. (There was never a time when He did not exist.)

God does not have a mother and father. (He was not produced by the actions of anyone.)