Brainwashing

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

RevJP,
I think the discussion on the Word of God and the scriptures started when I asked, "where in the Bible does it say that the scriptures are the Word of God? Look what happened. Shocked

JB

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:51 am Post subject:

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

HeKkLer,
Since your capacity for comprehension is based totally on intellect, I will make concession for your comments made in foolishness. Since you have no interest in discussion and debate, I see no reason for pursing dialog with you. Having said that, I will pray for you that your heart becomes sensitive to the Word OF God (Rhema) and that you begin to understand the Light or revelation of God.

God Bless you and keep seeking the King.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:25 am Post subject:

Ok JB.

Did I not read somewhere where you stated that you pastored somewhere?

I will pray for those that you may have pastored to... and I will pray that the next time you attempt to pastor or to teach, that you will be exposed as the false prophet that you are. Very Happy

_________________
Peace

The HeKkLeR

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

Jim,
I am surprised that that came from you. I thought much better of your spirit. If a man is struggling, whether you like that person or not, as a Christian you should pray for them. A matter of fact it is our Biblical responsibility. Yehu is a committed Christian and yes he can be a little gruff, but at the same time we all can learn from him. God has given you gifts, one of those gifts are other Christians.

God Bless and keep seeking the King.

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

Jim,
Once again, we are in total agreement.

God Bless and keep seeking the King.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject:

O JB, stop with that ugly hypocrisy stuff. Rolling Eyes

You attack me with every post that you include my name in (you love to drop names, it seems: not dimes, but fake 0.75 cent pieces, at that), then turn around and attempt to admonish and instruct someone else for stating their opinion about someone?

Actually, it is not an unbelievable thing. I believe it. Wink

Anyway, since Yehu and yourself keep blathering about "Greek this... greek that!", as if you have some secret glory in looking up Greek words to retranslate the bible how you seem fit (a common cult tactic, by the way), I have a few things for you:

1.

John 4:36-38

36

"Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together.

37

Thus the saying

'One sows and another reaps'

is true.

38

I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.

2.

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

HeKkLer,
So now you are a NIV guy? Did you know that most Bible scholars refer to that version as a paraphrase. But that doesn't matter to you does it?

Here is just one quote but I am sure you will really read it.
The NIV is a Really Bad Translation (1/2)

Page 1 of 2.
Originally posted in five messages by Richard Bacon
on the FIDO message system.

Packet: HOL
Date: 03-21-95 (13:09) Number: 2728
From: RICHARD BACON Refer#: NONE
To: ALL Recvd: NO
Subj: NIV Examples 1 Conf: (1442) fidonet.open_

Examples of REALLY BAD TRANSLATIONS found in a single reading of the NIV. Here we will compare it with the earlier NASV just to demonstrate that the NIV is bad in comparison even with its modern siblings.

Romans 4:1, NIV: "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?"

NASV (text option): "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?"

NASV (margin option): "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh?"

First of all, notice that the NIV ELIMINATES the term "flesh," which is one of the most important theological terms in the entire Bible. The "flesh theology" begins in Genesis 2-3, and continues throughout the Scriptures. It is extremely significant in the Pauline understanding, especially in the book of Romans. This is NOT "concept by concept" or "dynamic equivalence" -- it is an unwarranted reduction of the text by those who simply did not want to include the idea in the English. The NASV, with a far greater scholarship, included the term while acknowledging they were not certain about what the phrase "according to the flesh" modified.

Hebrews 11:11, NIV (text option): "By faith Abraham, even though he was past age--and Sarah herself was barren--was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise."

NIV (margin option): "By faith even Sarah, who was past age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who made the promise."

NASV (text option): "By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised;"

NASV (margin option): "By faith even Sarah herself received power for the laying down of seed, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered him faithful who had promised;"

The second NASV reading is a literal reading (so much despised by "the majority" according to James White) and points us to the mighty and important "seed theology" that runs throughout the Scripture, from Genesis onward. In fact, the first mention of the seed theology refers to the WOMAN'S seed. Thus Hebrews 11:11 has a very important place in the seed theology of Scripture. Yet, the NIV mentions it NOT AT ALL, and the NASV mentions it only in the margin. How convenient for a translation that translates "concept by concept" simply to leave out one of the MOST IMPORTANT concepts in the entire Scripture from its translation here. But this is not paraphrastic -- RIGHT! Neither is it an issue of textual criticism -- the UBS text does not vary from the TR at this point in Hebrews 11:11 -- both read "kataboleen spermatos elaben." The problem is not with the eclectic text -- the problem is with the NIV (and the NASV text option). The NASV text option is *slightly* paraphrastic and does away somewhat with a proper understanding of the seed theology of Scripture in this place. But it is not as paraphrastic as the NIV!

The NIV is so paraphrastic that they made up things to place in God's mouth. Now that is arrogance! Furthermore, the things they made up aren't even true! The NIV at Hebrews 11:11 attempts to make every scholar true and God a liar. Let me expatiate:

First of all, of the two NIV readings, only the marginal reading even *approximates* the Greek. And in approximating the Greek, it guts the passage by ignoring the seed theology. The text option, however, is just downright awful.

With absolutely no textual support in any textual tradition -- i.e. no Greek mss -- the NIV throws Abraham into the verse. It claims that Abraham was past age to have children -- which is clearly untrue, as Abraham's six sons by his second wife Keturah could testify (Genesis 25). Further, Abraham's behavior with the handmaid Hagar is proof enough that it was not Abraham, but Sarah who was "past age." But the NIV leaves us with the distinct impression by INTRODUCING Abraham without any textual basis at all that Abraham as well as Sarah was past age for "bearing children" (much less laying down seed, which is the theological import that is missing from both the text option and the margin option).

As I have continued to examine the NIV over the years I have been increasingly impressed with what a poor translation it actually is.

Dick

HekKler, keep on reading your NIV. You will really go places.

JB · Lion King Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1048

HeKkLer,
It would be in your best interest to research the NIV before you really place a lot of trust in it. Most of those people are more interested in sales than they are about truth. If they were to give you a Bible with a some what adequate translation, the Book would be twice the size that it is now and that would make it more expensive and less desirable for the average person to read. This isn't my opinion.

There are thousands of scholars who actually despise the NIV.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject:

JB,
thank you very much for all of that garbage that you included in your last post. Unfortunately, I did not get past the 8th line.

I am not like you. I do not look for the heels of another man to latch on to as gospel.

I hold to Jesus Christ, personally. But, I do understand your loss.

BEAUTIFUL

You might want to try it sometime; that is, reading the Holy Bible. I could also offer to you to read the KJV (AV), the NLT, the Luther Bible, the Goodnews Bible... I have a few more that I possess and study, also, but they are in a language that I doubt you could read.

But anyway, thank you so much again, for showing your ignorance. It is most entertaining to read. Very Happy

Oh yes... may I ask a question of you? If so, what bible do you read? I mean... what Holy Bible (the Christian one) translation do you study and read?

And if I could ask one more question: Do you truly believe that you and/or the Yehu guy... are more of scholars than the more than 170 scholars that translated the KJV and NIV?

Ooops. One more... if you can brace yourself like a man and answer: Do you think Jesus was wrong in the John 4:36-38 verses that I offered to you?

Thanks in advance! Very Happy

PS - I will surely keep studying the NIV! I absolutely LOVE to do so! It fills me with joy to read God's Word! Try it out... in between your rewriting it, even. Very Happy

_________________
Peace

The HeKkLeR

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject:

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: