Created Equal??

Luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: US

Our Pastor opened the door this morning for those of us in the congregation to share what we are grateful for.

One woman in the congregation said she wanted to share something she was concerned about. Her sister belongs to a Christian church in another state. The church allows women to preside as Pastors over the congregation.

This woman made some statements that I personally found disturbing. She said

1) Women are not equal to men.

2) Women should not be Pastors or Church Leaders.

3) Womens Lib is destroying this country.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:

1) Do all Christian churches believe men are better than women?

2) How does God view women? Are we equally important to our creator?

3) Is womens liberation a bad thing? The bible talks about women prophesying and teaching and spreading the good news of the kingdom. Many women communicate very eloquently and with compassion and sensitivity. These are gifts from God. Are we, according to Christian churches, to deny the very gifts God gave us or are we to use them as God directs us to?

Luv
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HeKkLeR · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:07 am Post subject:

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JB · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 724

LuvnLife,
I thank God for the women in our Church. Proverbs 31 talks about the immense value of a woman. God uses woman as well as men.

God bless you and keep seeking the King

admin · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:47 am Post subject:

Read Corinthians. Paul says women should not teach.

Her opinions are based on scripture.

Not saying it's right, just that it's there.
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PrysdieHeer! · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:

Woman are equal to men, but in different ways, I mean at some thing men are better, but women are better at other, Thus 3+5+6+6=20 (men) and 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+12 =20 (women)
20 = 20.
But they are not equal in all things, but different things count together makes them equal.

Women should not be Pastors or Church Leaders.
Women should not be soldiars
Women should not be Presidents.
Women should not be Rugby-players

Men should not be mothers.
Men should not . . . uhm?.... Sure There is something, just can`t think of it.
++++++++++++++++++++

Prys die Heer!♥
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Luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: US

Interesting responses, PrysdieHeer! and Admin.

I wonder why God made so many women so good at communicating if he didn't want us to use that talent. Seems like a waste, doesn't it?

Jesus never treated women like that. Paul seemed to take issue with women unless we are misunderstanding a letter he wrote to an obscure congregation thousands of years ago. What if those words were meant solely for that congregation at that period in history based on the law of the land at the time?

Prysdieheer!, you make a good point. We all have different talents. Why are women held back in Christian churches? Maybe you are a great artist. Perhaps I can write fairly well or maybe I'm persuasive and a good public speaker. Guess what women can't do as a part of the body of Christ according to many Christian males? Speak or teach publicly, use their God-given writing ability or anything else that those in charge decide women cannot do. Guess what men can't do as part of the body of Christ? Well, shucks! I'll be darned! There are no such limits placed on men. They can write, speak, teach, counsel, lead etc....

How right is that? I had a man recently tell me that there will be no women in heaven. Only men. I've also been told by men that all angels are male though the bible does not specify the gender of each and every angel mentioned. The winged women mentioned in Zechariah are, according to these men, not angels. Yet, historically, various art forms depict most angels as women. So few should wonder why women sometimes wonder what their place in this world is and where they fit in.

Luv
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For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: US

PrysdieHeer! · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject:

luv!
I think you misunderstand what Paul is trying to say. He is trying to say men have authority over women, they should be quite in churches, He does not say they must not serve God. And yes, women can go to heaven, even easier than men: They just need to have babies and raise them to be good Christians:
1Tim2:15:Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety
And I do believe some angels are female!
But man MUST have authority over women!
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Prys die Heer!
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Love is never a problem, it is always the solution!

If God did not exist, you would not Exist.

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Luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: US

Plotinus · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:08 am Post subject:

Luv,

The faith community that I am part of believes that men and women are spiritual equals in the fullest sense, and that their roles in teaching and leadership are the same.

When using the Bible which has the comments of Paul about women I remember that each passage can be interpreted in a least two ways. One is to see it as a universal instruction for all times and the other is to see it as limited to a particular historical situation. The letters of Paul are filled with responses to particular situations of the Christian communities of the time. They are also shaped by the demands of society of the time. Jesus makes this same point as recorded in the gospel of Matthew (Matthew 19:8). In other words a rule can be made, not because it is the best rule, but because of the social conditions of the time.
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Evee · Moderator Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 638

That is the way I see it, Plotinus. There was a certain issue going on in the Corinthian church & Paul addressed it. What we have to remember when reading Paul's letters is that he is writing to them from far away & encouraging his congregations much the same as it would be if the pastor of our church left on a mission & wrote to us to encourage us today. When we look at it that way, it puts a different spin on things a bit. In other words, Paul is working with what he has at the time, which is the only law they had. What if the laws were different? Would he say the same thing?

What he was referring to was b/c the leaders of the church would meet (which was the men) & the women, instead of asking questions in private w/their husband after the meeting was over, would instead blurt things out in the middle of the meeting. This would be disruptive. It in no way means that women are to be kept silent in church for eternity.
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Luvnlife · Lion King Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: US

Plotinus & Evee;

Thanks for your responses.

In the past, my inquiry on this matter has been treated as though I were trying to re-write the scriptures. That was never my intention. It was to understand what I was reading since Paul was writing and in some cases, correcting behaviors of the churches back then.

Luv
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Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints

Plotinus · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:42 am Post subject:

Hi luvnlife and evee.

A big textual issue that relates to this thread is the question of whether Junia/Junias as addressed by Paul as "prominent among the apostles" was male or female.

LINK
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.

Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7.

bigape · Puppy Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 210

Someone said here......

james · Grizzly Bear Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 720

I believe in Gods eyes men and women are equal. Biblically the duties and placement of men and women are different, but different does not mean unequal. God has set instructions for women in scripture and instructions for men, only in our minds do we see it as unequal, God see it as equal.