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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: |
Have I implied that universal belief in God is tacit in nature, similar to the tacit ant-hill-building information an ant posesses.
I think you'll find it's the latter.
Where's the fallacy?
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It's a non-sequitur. There is a much more reasonable explanation for the ubiquity of the belief in God (stop saying universal, because it isn't) which does not require magic.
| Dust wrote: |
Or perhaps belief in God is instinctual (if we want to use that term), which then leads to religion. |
Submission to authority is instinctual, which leads to religion. |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| P wrote: | | There is a much more reasonable explanation for the ubiquity of the belief in God (stop saying universal, because it isn't) which does not require magic. |
Well, that's your problem. Once I point this out to you you probably wont have a reason to be an atheist anymore.
You have been rebelling against a childhood concept of God!
God is not anymore magic than the magic we see in the Wave Function Of the Universe Theory, or the String Theory for that matter. God utilizes process, that's what this earth thing is all about......before we enter into eternity we must go through this temporal process we call life. Im sure it's by process that God created everything. When God said 'Let there be light', the entire electromagnetic spectrum sprang forth. That's no more magic than what the Big Bang Theory postulates.
Your problems are solved. You've just been rebelling against the god in your head. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | You have been rebelling against a childhood concept of God!
God is not anymore magic than the magic we see in the Wave Function Of the Universe Theory, or the String Theory for that matter. God utilizes process, that's what this earth thing is all about......before we enter into eternity we must go through this temporal process we call life. Im sure it's by process that God created everything. When God said 'Let there be light', the entire electromagnetic spectrum sprang forth. That's no more magic than what the Big Bang Theory postulates.
Your problems are solved. You've just been rebelling against the god in your head. |
What's the point in worshiping this God you've postulated? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: |
You have been rebelling against a childhood concept of God! |
I wasn't raised religious.
| Dust wrote: |
God is not anymore magic than the magic we see in the Wave Function Of the Universe Theory, or the String Theory for that matter. God utilizes process, that's what this earth thing is all about......before we enter into eternity we must go through this temporal process we call life. Im sure it's by process that God created everything. When God said 'Let there be light', the entire electromagnetic spectrum sprang forth. That's no more magic than what the Big Bang Theory postulates.
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An omnipotent God being able to snap his fingers and make anything He wants poof into existence sounds like magic to me.
In any case, back to my point: You don't need God to exist to explain the ubiquity of a belief in God. |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | What's the point in worshiping this God you've postulated? |
The point is, though wisdom, education, knowledge, pleasure, happiness, power, influence, and even religion have temporary value.....these all have an element of lasting value when related to God. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | | The point is, though wisdom, education, knowledge, pleasure, happiness, power, influence, and even religion have temporary value.....these all have an element of lasting value when related to God. |
How, when going with the God you've asserted? |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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What I have postulated is a natural sense of God. Parallel with this, is a natural sense of eternity. Folks have been tapping into these senses from the beginning of time, and thus usually accept the local cultural definition of God......but then......along come Christians, who go beyond just tapping into a sense of God and eternity.
It's a powerful thing man. That's why so many make the transition to Christianity. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | What I have postulated is a natural sense of God. Parallel with this, is a natural sense of eternity. Folks have been tapping into these senses from the beginning of time, and thus usually accept the local cultural definition of God......but then......along come Christians, who go beyond just tapping into a sense of God and eternity.
It's a powerful thing man. That's why so many make the transition to Christianity. |
Do you realize that if you would have been born in Riyadh and raised in a Muslim family, then you would almost certainly be a Muslim right now? You'd be completely convinced that Islam is the most powerful and truth-filled religion ever.
Religion is almost exclusively a function of the latitude and longitude of where you were born. |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes............until the Christian came along. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | | Yes............until the Christian came along. |
Are you saying that you'd be Muslim until a Christian missionary came along? Then your eyes would be opened to the truth?
The reality is that a Christian missionary in Saudi Arabia would probably be killed, and furthermore he wouldn't be getting very much sympathy from you, because you would see him as spreading his filthy heresy in your holy land. |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| P wrote: | | The reality is that a Christian missionary in Saudi Arabia would probably be killed, and furthermore he wouldn't be getting very much sympathy from you, because you would see him as spreading his filthy heresy in your holy land. |
Perhaps, but also reality is, that though the Muslim religion is growing, over time, more and more Muslims are converting to Christianity. This is just a continuation of a true evolutionary process which began 2000 years ago. It's takes time, cultural religious beliefs have to be challanged, some will convert more slowly than others, but the evolutionary process, to date, is quite evident.....1/3 of the worlds population in just 2000 years. What's the world going to be like in another 4000 years?.....based, of course, on the observed empirical evolutionary facts. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | | Perhaps, but also reality is, that though the Muslim religion is growing, over time, more and more Muslims are converting to Christianity. |
Islam is growing significantly faster than Christianity. Christianity is growing around 2.3% annually (barely enough to keep up with the growth rate of the world) and Islam is growing at 2.9%.
| Dust wrote: | | It's takes time, cultural religious beliefs have to be challanged, some will convert more slowly than others, but the evolutionary process, to date, is quite evident.....1/3 of the worlds population in just 2000 years. |
Christianity made up 1/3 in the 80s. Less now.
| Dust wrote: | | What's the world going to be like in another 4000 years? |
Primarily Muslim unless something else comes along. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Do you realize that if you would have been born in Riyadh and raised in a Muslim family, then you would almost certainly be a Muslim right now? You'd be completely convinced that Islam is the most powerful and truth-filled religion ever.
Religion is almost exclusively a function of the latitude and longitude of where you were born. |
There is a lot of truth to that... I wouldn't disagree. Here is the difference, in Saudi Arabia you are not exposed to other religions. Here, you are. I believe by simply coming to message boards and participating in discussions one is testing the veracity of their own religion... belief system, verses others. I, for one, have had my faith strengthened significantly by participating on these boards... not the opposite.
This idea of Christians following their faith blindly is simply a caricature throw back that we saw in the movie ‘Inherit the Wind’. Hollywood intellectual snobbery types would want us to believe that… but in reality, Christians are not afraid to test their faith at all. The Bible actually tells us to ‘test all things’… and the Bible is one of those ‘things’. |
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