Did Jesus go to hell?

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the (spirits now in prison),
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(NAS95)

These words refer to Christ, by his Spirit, preaching through Noah to men who were then (In the days of Noah) on earth, but who, (when the apostle wrote), were in hell —(“spirits now in prison.”)

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Related scripture:

1Pe 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
11 seeking to know what person or time the (Spirit of Christ within them) was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

These words "Spirit of Christ within them" show us that when men of old prophesied of Gods grace it was the Spirit of Christ that was speaking through them.
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1Pe 4:6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached (even to those who are dead,) that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

These words show us that the gospel of Gods grace was preached even to those who died before Christ.
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2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
5 (and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness,) with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

These words show us Peter making reference to the same situation as he did in 1Peter 3:18-21.
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John Calvin, 1 Peter 3:18-21:
The most satisfactory explanation of this passage is that of Beza, Doddridge, Macknight, and Scott; that the reference is to what was done in the time of Noah, that is, that Christ by his Spirit employed him as a preacher of righteousness, though with no success, as the spirits of the men to whom he preached were then in prison, reserved, as the fallen angels are represented to be, for the judgment of the last day. The Apostle had before said that Christ’s Spirit was in the prophets who foretold his coming, #1Pe 1:11. The passage may be thus rendered, —

19. "By which also he, having gone, preached to the spirits who are in prison, formerly disobedient, when the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah," etc.; or, according to Mackight, "to the spirits now in prison, who formerly were disobedient," etc. The word "formerly" seems to require "now" in the previous clause, or, "who are," as rendered by Beza. "He, having gone, preached," is similar to a phrase in #Eph 2:17, "And came and preached," etc.; or, literally, "And having come he preached," etc. Paul does not speak of his coming personally, but by his ministers: and Peter evidently speaks of his going in the same sense.
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Anyone can point out a scripture here and there and prove anything they want to believe, but good theology is understanding the message of the gospel as a whole. Sincerely, JimD

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject:

Oh that's just great. As if people didn't have enough trouble with hades and gehenna and hell and sheol, go and bring φυλακη (phulake) into it.

Rolling Eyes

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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago.

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

Yehushuan · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: WHERE IS HELL?

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

JimD · Bear Cub Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 628

45degreeN · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:28 am Post subject:

Jesus spoke of hell as a place at least in parable format. Assuming He wasn't just trying to fool us through this parable then, is there any other reason other than there being an actual Hell.

If he was attempting to just provide an 'allegory' rather than just speaking of an actual place then where or when did he ever explain anything else on this issue? Jesus never did mention any other condition for the dead.
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Yehushuan · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:59 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:18 am Post subject:

Then Yehu in the parable of "Lazarus and the rich man" what was Jesus pointing to as the place where this rich man went to (where he was punished) and how was it irreparably separate from the place where Lazarus went to. At some point I would just rather deal with the ideas and not so much the precise word used since they can be confusing.

Obviously 'within the parable' there was the ability to see each other from one place to the other, which is not your typical heaven vs hell idea. Remember Jesus used this parable to communicate to a first century Jewish audience. So maybe there is some old form (such as Abraham's bossom) that is not the same as the NT form of place of punishment. Still, the idea of eternal punishment for a life of sin is there and we must still deal with it. Note: Jesus didn't expect everyone to get the message even if they saw the dead come back to life.
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Yehushuan · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

Well, 45, the word ‘αδης (hades) occurs only four times in the gospels, whereas γέεννα (Gehenna) occurs 11 times. I’ve not done any type of PhD work on this, but until I do so, just cannot willy-nilly embrace the assertion that the two are synonymous.

As I said before IT’S A PARABLE. Not something from which to derive factual doctrines of physics.

Do you know why there is no heaven in the OT (heaven as in the context of an afterlife as preached by the NT)?

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:

My computer cant write Hebrew letters but just what differences are there between sheol. and gehenna? Most importantly what significance is there. Whatever the name of this place is it a place of eternal punishment or something else? If I remember correctly gehenna is like a trash dump that is burning.

Any ordinary trash dump one can at least theoretically climb out of while it might be difficult but not impossible. Whereas the images we have of heaven and hell are such that there is little connection between them and there is no possibility of moving from one to the other, very much like the image presented in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
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