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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Flip flop McCain does and doesn't support:abortion, gay rights, tax cuts how many other things has he flip flopped on. His principles are blowing in the wind up for whoever is in front of him at the moment. No wonder he has no core constituency.
I wonder how he gets elected in AZ. except that he's been there forever and it is hard to un-elect anyone anymore.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7558
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | Flip flop McCain does and doesn't support:abortion, gay rights, tax cuts how many other things has he flip flopped on. His principles are blowing in the wind up for whoever is in front of him at the moment. No wonder he has no core constituency.
I wonder how he gets elected in AZ. except that he's been there forever and it is hard to un-elect anyone anymore. |
Who are you going to vote for?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Libertarian candidate
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Direct-to-trashcan voting. Good choice.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7558
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | | Libertarian candidate |
Umm... Why would you vote for a Libertarian candidate if you're not rich?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Because I hold my freedom as a priority and of all the parties out there they agree with most of my points of view. Whether or not they will actually be elected this time or not. I've been registered Libertarian now for eight years.
I really hate to vote for the lesser of two evils, just to be on the winning side.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7558
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | Because I hold my freedom as a priority and of all the parties out there they agree with most of my points of view. Whether or not they will actually be elected this time or not. I've been registered Libertarian now for eight years.
I really hate to vote for the lesser of two evils, just to be on the winning side. |
Don't libertarians want to eliminate the income tax? Don't they want to privatize and deregulate pretty much everything?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1369
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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some do, some don't....if you think the Republican (Reiligous Right, fiscal conservatives, flat taxers, strong defense folks, etc, etc) and Democratic (socialists, pacifists, isolationists, nanny staters, etc, etc) parties are diverse, both pale in comparison to Libertarians...
the only real common trend among Libertarians is "the individual over the state".
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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P123 you'll note that Libertarians see that all our rights come not from the state but from God and government is that Earthly necessity that needs to be as small as it can be so that it doesn't interfere with those rights.
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | | P123 you'll note that Libertarians see that all our rights come not from the state but from God and government is that Earthly necessity that needs to be as small as it can be so that it doesn't interfere with those rights. |
So why intarnation are you supporting Obama who wants to essentially grow the government by adding trillions in unfunded (unconstitutional I might add) medical payments for uninsured Ameircans? Why vote for a candidate who wants to confiscate profits from those who legally earned them? Why vote or support someone who believes that peace can be acehived by talking and pacifying beligerants whose sole purpose is for you to "drop your gloves so they can knock your head off" at the first opportunity?
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Two issues
1) America has become a new age Roman empire and the reign of Bush has pushed the power of an imperial presidency into the stratosphere. He manipulates the people of America with fear and Obama is not the type who would use this and maybe even reduce it. (read the "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire")
2)The US is the only modern country which doesn't have some sort of universal health care and I think that it is about time that we joined the rest of the modern world.
If you've ever bothered to study the Libertarian party you will note they are some of the least coherent group of people joined into a single party.
Pondering wrote correctly that | Quote: | | some do, some don't....if you think the Republican (Riligous Right, fiscal conservatives, flat taxers, strong defense folks, etc, etc) and Democratic (socialists, pacifists, isolationists, nanny staters, etc, etc) parties are diverse, both pale in comparison to Libertarians... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | Two issues
1) America has become a new age Roman empire and the reign of Bush has pushed the power of an imperial presidency into the stratosphere. He manipulates the people of America with fear and Obama is not the type who would use this and maybe even reduce it. (read the "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire") |
America gives more to foreign countries in aid... kindness... and generosity than any other country in the history of this planet. We currently have the ability to wipe clean the majority of the armies of this world away in short order with our military might. We chose not to... period. This tired mantra of imperialism is nothing more than the continued empty rhetoric of the Obamamunchkins. Incapable of thinking for themselves and uttering rational responses.. they decidedly attack their own country without any substantive or objective measure. It is only the tired and true Bush is evil routine.  Can we ever provide specifics when making responses?
Also... Obama is an idiot by stating that he would negotiate with Iran without pre-conditions. that is simply naive... what is he going to tell these folks that Russia, China, the European Union, and the UN haven't already said? For crying out loud... listen to what this mental midget says. When you see he would change course from Bush'es policies... I'd say yeah, you sure are right.
| Quote: | | 2)The US is the only modern country which doesn't have some sort of universal health care and I think that it is about time that we joined the rest of the modern world. |
True enough... and this indeed is why people from those countries that do have universal health care flock to the US to get the emergency care that saves their lives. Why? Because ours is the best system in the world. If you want everyone to have health care (which is an entirely different subject) limit the percentage a trail lawyer can take on a judgment for his/her client. If you can't limit the costs... the true costs... the costs Doctors pay in liability insurance... simply have me pay for your health care is going to do nothing but drive us further into debt.
Also... I might add everyone in our country has access to health... Those who are destitute are entitled to Medicaid. The elderly are entitled to Medicare. Children are covered under SHiP. Now... you want what? Me to pay for yours and everyone's else’s when you or your candidate don't have the courage to take on the source for the high costs?
Me thinks not.
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Also... I might add everyone in our country has access to health... Those who are destitute are entitled to Medicaid. The elderly are entitled to Medicare. Children are covered under SHiP. |
| ---from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens wrote: | The clerk, in letting Scrooge's nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly gentlemen, pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their hats off, in Scrooge's office. They had books and papers in their hands, and bowed to him.
'Scrooge and Marley's, I believe,' said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. 'Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr Scrooge, or Mr Marley?'
'Mr Marley has been dead these seven years,' Scrooge replied. 'He died seven years ago, this very night.'
'We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner,' said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.
'It certainly was, for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word liberality, Scrooge frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.
'They are. Still,' returned the gentleman,' I wish I could say they were not.'
'The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Scrooge.
'At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'
'Are there no prisons?"
'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are they still in operation?'
'Both very busy, sir.'
'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said Scrooge. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'
'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'
'Nothing!' Scrooge replied.
'You wish to be anonymous?'
'I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'
'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'
'If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." |
Certainly we have the best health care system in the world, no doubt. However, it is naive... nay... it is ignorant to suggest that everybody has access to it.
Indeed, we do need fundamental reform of the tort system to rid our medical practitioners of the outrageous costs of providing care due to frivolous law suits and astronomically large and unnecessary settlements and judgments, but we also need a fundamental change in all aspects of the system; particularly in market driven care, pharmaceuticals, access, , etc.
It is amazing to me that in my family we have two incomes, and make fairly decent money, however, half of that family income provides medical insurance and my prescriptions, and little else. Can I get medicaid? Not at all. Can I continue to afford $1500 a month for my prescriptions which keep me alive? Not for long, but that won't be a concern for others will it? By the time I am unable to work to pay for my medical, I won't be able to afford treatment, and soon after that my wife can collect my Social Security benefits (if it hasn't gone bankrupt already...).
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2530
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Just a little perspective on Medicaid.
My wife was declared disabled in November two years ago. She isn't qualified to receive Medicaid until next November! so much for the destitute getting health care. Our income is well below the poverty level and has been for years now.
Under both Hillary's and Obama's plans we would get coverage (of course it will take a long time if ever to get it passed even with an all democratic congress)
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Certainly we have the best health care system in the world, no doubt. However, it is naive... nay... it is ignorant to suggest that everybody has access to it. |
You can not walk into an emergency room... anywhere in this country, and get treated?
I agree there is need for reform... however, getting the government to foot the bill is simply not the answer.
| Quote: | | Indeed, we do need fundamental reform of the tort system to rid our medical practitioners of the outrageous costs of providing care due to frivolous law suits and astronomically large and unnecessary settlements and judgments, but we also need a fundamental change in all aspects of the system; particularly in market driven care, pharmaceuticals, access, , etc. |
JP... the one major cost for a private practitioner is not salary, building, meds, supplies, or advertising... the one major cost for a private practicing doctor exceeds these combined and that is medical malpractice insurance. The monthly premiums alone exceed these other costs combined.
Trail lawyers are taking 33% to 40% of judgments for their clients. They are therefore encouraged to submit all of these frivolous lawsuits knowing the cost of litigation alone will drive up the possibility of an out of court settlement. However, if you limit the percentage they can take - yes take from their clients - then the threat of going to trail does not seem to cost prohibitive for the Doctors as the trail lawyers won't be getting as much... ergo... the veracity of their clients claims will need to be better. It would make the system better all around... and I'm not just talking about health care. Think about all of the manufacturing jobs that go overseas simply because employers can't afford... or the cost is prohibitive to pay... these outrageous insurance premiums. Jobs would be created... industries would return... other areas of the economy would improve... etc...
But... what does Obama want? Hillary? More of the same big brother os the cure for all solutions... when it never has been to begin with. I am indeed sorry to hear about your condition and financial pains of having to pay for meds just to stay alive... I won't even try to imagine the difficulties involved there. The answer, though, isn't government paid health care for all... get the lawyers out of the Doctor's offices and you'll see a drop in insurance, meds, and just about everything... except gas.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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