Lazarus and the Rich man

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

Who are they?

Paul

Pete · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:

Luke 15:2; And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
This verse describes the attitude of the Pharisees and the scribes towards the masses.

Luke 16:14; And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. They sneered at Jesus in front of the crowd that had come to hear him.

Luke 16:15; And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. The Pharisees and the scribes had not come to learn from Jesus, they came to ridicule him, and deride him as one who was not accepted as an authority, and part of the establishment. They were also concerned because of the great crowds of the common masses that came to hear him, and the influence he was having among them.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man, is clearly a parable. It cannot be taken literally, as many do. It was a parable aimed directly at those who were in power in Jerusalem, and were totally corrupt. The only difference between Lazarus and the rich man was their position in life. The rich man lived sumptuously, while the beggar was destitute and sick.

If we take this story literally, then it means the poor and sickly go to heaven and the rich are condemned to an eternity in hell’s flames. Neither had been baptized, neither was a “born again” Christian, neither was a Trinitarian, or a Roman Catholic. This story is obviously a parable, and since the audience included the Pharisees and scribes, it must have been intended for them.

The Rich man represents Israel’s leaders, the scribes, Pharisees and priests. They are represented by their purple robes of authority. The poor, sickly beggar represents Israel. The rich man’s gate represents the temple gate, where the Jews sat waiting to be fed spiritually, but received only a few crumbs from the priests and Pharisees who were too busy attending to their own pompous, self-satiating interests.

The beggar died when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jews went into dispersion. The rich man went to hell after the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. and was no longer a leader of the Jews. The Levitical priesthood disappeared. The idea of hell here is that the Pharisees and scribes will not be a part of the millennial reign of Christ.

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

Who are the five brothers of the Rich man?

Paul

Zathrus · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:19 am Post subject:

I'm with Pete on it being a parable.
Like many of Jesus' other parables, it is a parable of how Israel would be shut out of the kingdom because of their unbelief and hardness of heart, and others (including Gentiles) would hear the invitation, believe, and enter the kingdom, becoming children of Abraham.
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knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi Trettep---------------

the five brothers are----Reuben,Simeon,Levi,Issachar,and Zebulun

much love-----------knuckle

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi-----------

Sores dogs unclean----he must be a gentile

much love---------knuckle

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

So you don't think the begger is a lepper do you?

Paul

knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi Paul---------

No, I think Lazarus is a picture of how the gentiles were viewed by the Jews.

They had Moses and the scriptures,they were God's own people and it made them arrogant.They thought(or at least the Pharisees did)that they had it all and knew it all and put themselves up on a high horse.

Why do you think they rejected their Savior?It is because one cannot recognize one's savior until one recognizes their enemy.Had Christ come with a sword to destroy Rome the Pharisees would have placed a crown upon His head and declared Him king.Rome was not the enemy.The enemy was named in the garden.It is that old serpent,the devil that held them in bondage and subjection but because of the sinful heart of man we don't see this.We look too much like satan to see him, we rejoice in evil and sin till we run into the Spirit of God and we are convicted.

something better done here than later.

much love to you sir -------knuckle

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

Hi Knuckle -

I see where your coming from. But I want to go back the reason I asked you if you thought Lazarus was a leper. He is covered with sores right? So this Lazarus must be a leper. Additionally, he is laid at the gate. The lepers had to be remove outside the gates. They were considered unclean. So if you don't think that the begger is a leper then we have a GREAT BIG COINCIDENSE. Here is why. Because the very leper that Jesus rose from the dead was a Leper so that anyone hearing Jesus say this parable would have definately though exactly upon him. For this was obviously so big of knews. Not only that but this rich man dressed in fine apparrel is strickingly similiar to Caiphas who had 5 brothers. Surely, the description of the apparrel is priestly apparrel. Do don't you believe that there is a big change this begger is Lazarus - the leper that Jesus rose from the dead?

Paul

knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi Paul------------

Do you know what Lazarus is in Hebrew?It is Eliezer the name of Abraham's faithful servant who would have inherited all of Abraham's wealth if God had not opened Sarah's womb.

Eliezer this Syrian Gentile knew this but he loved his master more than wealth and riches and rejoiced with Abraham when his son was born.Abraham put Eliezer in charge of all he had,trusted him in everything, sent him to find a bride for his son and afterward Isaac made him chief of all he had too.

the drop of water that the richman begs for from the finger of Lazarus is the gospel of Jesus Christ, that living water that he thought he didn't need.

much love-----------knuckle

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:12 am Post subject:

Jesus raised a leper from the dead? Confused or disgusted

MAybe I'm not spending enough time in God's Word. I don't remember that. trettep, what book and chapter is that in?

trettep, you may be on to something with your theory of why Jesus gave the characters in this parable names. The beggar may have been a reference to His friend Lazarus who died of an unspecified sickness in John 11, and whom the Pharisees conspired to put back to death to stop people from following after Jesus.

I know you're fond of the 1000 years as one day theory. I do not base doctrine on that idea, but I think in the case of this parable, Jesus may have used it. How many days was Jesus' friend Lazarus dead? How many years, rounded to the nearest 1000, were the Gentiles strangers to the promises of God, foreigners, without hope?

And some of the description of the rich man may indeed have been jabs at Caiaphas, though I think Jesus had the religious order and the theocracy he represented in view in the parable.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!

2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:53 am Post subject:

There were far more than two lepers named Lazarus and the "parable of the Leper and the rich man" had nothing to do with a real person named Lazarus but was merely a parable to demonstrate that the people wouldn't listen to Jesus no matter what, even if He did in fact resurrect from the dead.
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trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910