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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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But in Eve's instance the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was never meant to provide life. Again, I don't think that Eve could have really known what death was if she was living where there was no death.
Paul |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: | But in Eve's instance the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was never meant to provide life. Again, I don't think that Eve could have really known what death was if she was living where there was no death.
Paul |
If the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents materialism..and not faith, then no, there wouldn't be life in it, neither would it be able to provide life.
I believe that "faith" and "life" are synonymous in the bible. They mean the same thing.
And they wouldn't have been able to find life without first losing it..
He who seeks to save his life (the materialistic life) shall lose it..(it's the way it is).
But he who loses his life (materialism which we chose over faith) for my sake (faith), shall find it.
Ye can not serve God and Mammon.
Either you have faith or you do not.
Either you trust in faith or you trust in riches..
a house divided against itself shall fall..
Adam and Eve were one in the beginning. the church in Christ, Christ in the church..Eve in Adam..Adam in Eve.
They were divided. They were subjected to vanity through that division. But in that subjection to vanity also came the subjection of hope. That Adam would learn, sobeit the hard way..how not to trust in riches but to trust in faith.
Now it was the church..whether it be the church in the wilderness with Moses or the church today that was and is still subjected to vanity in the hope that the church will also follow in the path of Faith and Hope..the same as our "husband" Christ did.
When God tossed Adam out of the garden, Eve followed..
When Christ returned to the Father, the hope that the church will submit to her husband and follow is still there.
We have to have faith...
in order to find faith one must first lose faith in material things which do not lead to life..which we have all been subjected to..it is appointed unto man once to die...
this death is falling out of faith and seeking material support..
After this the resurrection when we are given a "seed" of faith and we either plant it or throw it away..
If we plant it and we find that "seed" of faith has grown into a tree..that tree is the tree of life which shall sustain us.
If we throw it away..then we only have the tree of knowledge or materialism to live on, then that tree will have to sustan all our needs. And we know materialism can not sustain spiritual needs. And so the spirit in man seeking that spiritual tree of life will only find the tree of materialism and his spirit will die..
second death..
is this making any sense?
hugs
lone |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
If the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents materialism..and not faith, then no, there wouldn't be life in it, neither would it be able to provide life.
I believe that "faith" and "life" are synonymous in the bible. They mean the same thing.
And they wouldn't have been able to find life without first losing it..
He who seeks to save his life (the materialistic life) shall lose it..(it's the way it is).
But he who loses his life (materialism which we chose over faith) for my sake (faith), shall find it.
Ye can not serve God and Mammon.
Either you have faith or you do not.
Either you trust in faith or you trust in riches..
a house divided against itself shall fall..
Adam and Eve were one in the beginning. the church in Christ, Christ in the church..Eve in Adam..Adam in Eve.
They were divided. They were subjected to vanity through that division. But in that subjection to vanity also came the subjection of hope. That Adam would learn, sobeit the hard way..how not to trust in riches but to trust in faith.
Now it was the church..whether it be the church in the wilderness with Moses or the church today that was and is still subjected to vanity in the hope that the church will also follow in the path of Faith and Hope..the same as our "husband" Christ did.
When God tossed Adam out of the garden, Eve followed..
When Christ returned to the Father, the hope that the church will submit to her husband and follow is still there.
We have to have faith...
in order to find faith one must first lose faith in material things which do not lead to life..which we have all been subjected to..it is appointed unto man once to die...
this death is falling out of faith and seeking material support..
After this the resurrection when we are given a "seed" of faith and we either plant it or throw it away..
If we plant it and we find that "seed" of faith has grown into a tree..that tree is the tree of life which shall sustain us.
If we throw it away..then we only have the tree of knowledge or materialism to live on, then that tree will have to sustan all our needs. And we know materialism can not sustain spiritual needs. And so the spirit in man seeking that spiritual tree of life will only find the tree of materialism and his spirit will die..
second death..
is this making any sense?
hugs
lone |
Lone, think of God from the things that He made. Take human reproduction. The man's seed is in his semen. He delivers this to the womb and what is born unto the man thru the woman is the child unto the man. Likewise God does. He gives forth His Seed (Word of God) into the life bringer (Jesus) just as Adam put forth his seed into Eve the life bringer. Where all children born unto the Father are thru the life bringer (Jesus) just as all born unto Adam are thru the life bringer Eve. Therefore, we know that the Word of God carries life and this is proof that physical life is transferred from the human male and that an embryo has life because it was transferred from the father. This human production is teaching us about how God creates His Children.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | JimD said: for love to be love there has to be a choice.
God created the potential for evil, but man actualized it. |
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Tree said: you only make choices though within a framework. In other words. If you enter a room you can only take the choice of doors attached in that room. You can take the door attached to another room and say your not going to take any of the doors in the existing room. For how would you get to the other room if not by taking one of the doors in the existing room. It is in this manner your have to look at choice. God controls the framework for choice. Look at Jonah. He didn't want to warn Ninevah because he had choices that allowed the strength of his flesh to prevail UNTIL that framework changed. Obviously, he did end up making the choice even though he stubbornly refused to. His ability to withstand God couldn't prevail - nobody's choice to withstand God can prevail. We all eventually make the choice that He wants us to make. Jonah did, Pharoh did, Nebuchnezzar did, Paul did, etc... Everyone will.
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Beautiful analogy Tree, but my point is, salvation comes in whatever room you find yourself in when you make the choice to believe God. You are speaking to our walk with God. I am speaking to the beginning of that walk.
Actually I am speaking to what happens in our head before we even begin to walk. Salvation begins or doesn't begin in the room of our head between our spirit and God's spirit, it is a spiritual thing, not a physical. The physical will come, but only if the spiritual comes first. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Quote: | JimD said: for love to be love there has to be a choice.
God created the potential for evil, but man actualized it. |
| Quote: |
Tree said: you only make choices though within a framework. In other words. If you enter a room you can only take the choice of doors attached in that room. You can take the door attached to another room and say your not going to take any of the doors in the existing room. For how would you get to the other room if not by taking one of the doors in the existing room. It is in this manner your have to look at choice. God controls the framework for choice. Look at Jonah. He didn't want to warn Ninevah because he had choices that allowed the strength of his flesh to prevail UNTIL that framework changed. Obviously, he did end up making the choice even though he stubbornly refused to. His ability to withstand God couldn't prevail - nobody's choice to withstand God can prevail. We all eventually make the choice that He wants us to make. Jonah did, Pharoh did, Nebuchnezzar did, Paul did, etc... Everyone will.
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Beautiful analogy Tree, but my point is, salvation comes in whatever room you find yourself in when you make the choice to believe God. You are speaking to our walk with God. I am speaking to the beginning of that walk.
Actually I am speaking to what happens in our head before we even begin to walk. Salvation begins or doesn't begin in the room of our head between our spirit and God's spirit, it is a spiritual thing, not a physical. The physical will come, but only if the spiritual comes first. |
JimD, nobody originates within their mind to walk with God. God is the originator. God DRAGS us to Him like were fish in a net. It is Him that does such.
Imagine how many people believe that they DESERVE to be saved because they RESPONDED to His calling. Those people have no idea on how God operates. Yet it is preached from pews all over the place. If one can claim that the claim willingly to God then they know not how God operates. For I am perishing. He that is coming to God is Him that He sent that is alive in my body. I would NEVER come to God. I love catering to my flesh. But He overcomes my flesh. By His Mercy He saves me and thereby is destroying who I am. This is what is meant by those that save their lives will lose them and those that lose their lives for Him will find them.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Tree, God does not drag us, he calls us, and responding to that call in no way shape or fashion makes us deserving of anything. Accepting a gift does not make us deserve that gift, that is the meaning of a gift, its given out of love, not because we deserve it.
I am sorry your theology does not let you see this. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | Tree, God does not drag us, he calls us, and responding to that call in no way shape or fashion makes us deserving of anything. Accepting a gift does not make us deserve that gift, that is the meaning of a gift, its given out of love, not because we deserve it.
I am sorry your theology does not let you see this. |
You don't get it JimD. The disciples were fishers of men. And how did they catch fish? They used nets. So God is showing us that like fish we will be caught.
Mar 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.
Jesus tells them they will be fishers of men.
Before that verse is this:
Mar 1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
G1670
ἑλκύω, ἕλκω
helkuō helkō
hel-koo'-o, hel'-ko
Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw. Compare G1667.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Tree, you seem to be willing to push your examples past the breaking point to prove your point, so ok I will play your game for a while. Did they catch all the fish in the sea?
Take a look at Yehus post on the thread (For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive) page 3
Tell me what you think about his post. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | Tree, you seem to be willing to push your examples past the breaking point to prove your point, so ok I will play your game for a while. Did they catch all the fish in the sea?
Take a look at Yehus post on the thread (For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive) page 3
Tell me what you think about his post. |
JimD, all will be called only a few are chosen to reign with the Christ when He returns. Do you realize those chosen are to be priests? What do you believe they are the priests for? They are for the Temple. You see JimD before all the rest can come into the Temple it must be built. Jesus is still building His Temple. He will raise on the third day. Better think hard about all this JimD. That Third day is fast approaching.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Tree said:
JimD, all will be called only a few are chosen to reign with the Christ when He returns. Do you realize those chosen are to be priests? What do you believe they are the priests for? They are for the Temple. You see JimD before all the rest can come into the Temple it must be built. Jesus is still building His Temple. He will raise on the third day. Better think hard about all this JimD. That Third day is fast approaching. |
I am already chosen, and reigning with Christ as a priest in His temple! This was prepared for me (and You) on the third day when He arose from the grave! The third day is already here, where have you been? |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Quote: |
Tree said:
JimD, all will be called only a few are chosen to reign with the Christ when He returns. Do you realize those chosen are to be priests? What do you believe they are the priests for? They are for the Temple. You see JimD before all the rest can come into the Temple it must be built. Jesus is still building His Temple. He will raise on the third day. Better think hard about all this JimD. That Third day is fast approaching. |
I am already chosen, and reigning with Christ as a priest in His temple! This was prepared for me (and You) on the third day when He arose from the grave! The third day is already here, where have you been? |
JimD, I'm sure you really believe that. But let's test your analysis. Who are the two witnesses then and the 144,000?
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Tree said:JimD, I'm sure you really believe that. But let's test your analysis. Who are the two witnesses then and the 144,000? |
If you believe the 144,000 is to be taken as a literal number of people you have no business teaching, much less testing anyones analysis. Sorry  |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Quote: | | Tree said:JimD, I'm sure you really believe that. But let's test your analysis. Who are the two witnesses then and the 144,000? |
If you believe the 144,000 is to be taken as a literal number of people you have no business teaching, much less testing anyones analysis. Sorry |
I didn't make a statement in regard to that. I asked a question to you.
Paul |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 693
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| This thread has strayed from the OP subject but is interesting. I hope that it remains civil as I am enjoying it. God bless. |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Tree said: didn't make a statement in regard to that. I asked a question to you. |
If you've got something to say Tree, just spit it out, we are all ears! |
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