Global warming on Mars? and now Jupiter

45degreeN · Last edited by 45degreeN on Sun May 25, 2008 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Yes NASA has determined that Mars is experiencing global warming also. The big polar ice caps have been shrinking dramatically over the last few years.

I wonder when humans got there to pollute that planet also? Or Martians I guess.

Pondering · Lion King Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1273

FWIW, I pointed this out months ago...and it's not just Mars...NASA is seeing "anomalies" in our entire solar system....but hey, what do I know? The Gore-acle told me so???

P1234567890 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject:

Venus is a much better example. The surface of Venus is hot enough to melt lead. Why? Because of the greenhouse effect there.

And what's causing the greenhouse effect there? It's CO2.

The temperature of our planet has gone up by like 1 degree Celsius over the past hundred years. In the same time, our CO2 levels have gone up by 50%.

We can see what the greenhouse effect has done on Venus. Anyone who denies that increasing our atmospheric CO2 levels by 50% has caused the 1 degree increase in temperature and that it will continue to go up is being *extremely* reckless.

45degreeN · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am Post subject:

Venus was at first considered an example of the greenhouse effect but while Venus is certainly hot it has nothing at all to do with the processes going on here on Earth, totally different.

The problem of using Venus as the classical example is that we have no evidence whatsoever of what it was like prior to it getting very hot, (if it was ever not hot). Nor do we know yet just what processes took place to make it the way it is. There certainly were popular images of Venus as some paradise but they were merely fictional. More importantly there were never any humans there to do the dirty deed, whatever happened was a perfectly natural process.

Still the environmentalist use Venus as the example and tell us how bad it will get here if we just ignore their signs. Their use of Venus is disingenuous.

Mars is quite a different story. NASA has photographed the polar ice sheaths for many years and noted the fact that they are growing smaller. According to sources this phenomenon is based upon solar cycles and the energy that comes to Mars from the sun.

Unlike Venus which has an incredibly dense atmosphere Mars' atmosphere is transparent and can easily be seen through. It appears that Venus has internal source of heat which radiates outward and keeps the atmosphere intensely hot, whereas Mars is much colder and the only heat there comes from the sun.

45degreeN · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:44 am Post subject:

Venus' atmosphere is heated from internal sources and the Magellan space probe observed that it expands and collapses on a 4 day basis as much as 1 km. It is like the lid on a boiling pot which bounces around due to the expanding steam.

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:24 am Post subject:

Pondering · Lion King Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1273

/smackforehead

Exhibit C...

so P#s, how did all that CO2 get into Venus' atmosphere?

and aren't you the one that says don't ignore the scientists? yet it's NASA that 45degree used as a source....so you know better than NASA?

45degreeN · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:

NASA's Magellan probe showed us all that heat does escape from Venus' atmosphere it is not kept in at all, almost twice as much heat escapes than heat caused by global warming.
It is convection from internal Venus sources that accounts for all of that heat like an inner core that is bigger and hotter than earth's.

Yes I realize that Venus is one of the environmental movement's cherished examples but it is based upon speculative accounts of Venus, not science at all. It was back in the sixties when science jumped on Venus as a runaway greenhouse example and that was far before any of the science was performed. We know far more now about the Venusian system and it is not runaway greenhouse situation at all.

What gets me is that Mars is showing an increase in warmth global warming.

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

rufus · Big Goldfish Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 65 Location: USA

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:

Pondering · Lion King Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1273

Earth's atmosphere:
"nitrogen (78 percent) and molecular oxygen (21 percent). Also present are much smaller amounts of gases such as argon (nearly 1 percent), water vapour (averaging 1 percent but highly variable in time and location), carbon dioxide (0.037 percent [370 parts per million] and presently rising), methane (0.00015 percent [1.5 parts per million]),"

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-54196/Earth

Venus' atmosphere:

"Its gaseous envelope is composed of more than 96 percent carbon dioxide and 3.5 percent molecular nitrogen. Trace amounts of other gases are present, including carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, water vapour, argon, and helium. "

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-54178/Venus

When the Earth's atmosphere gets to .1 %, then maybe we need to pay attention.....this isn't comparing apples to oranges...this is comparing apples to Democrats Rolling Eyes

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

We don't have to get up to 96% CO2 in order to all be dead. We'll have much bigger problems well before that.

At 1% CO2, people get extremely drowsy and can't work properly. At 2%, breathing the air will start to acidify your blood, and at 5% it's toxic.

But in any case, you're not understanding the important thing here. Yes, the concentration of CO2 in the Venusian atmosphere is REALLY high, but it's also REALLY hot -hot enough to melt lead on the surface of the planet.

If you increase it a little bit, then the temperature goes up a little bit.

Take a little greenhouse, and fill it with 200 ppm CO2 and air. Take one with 400 ppm CO2 and air. You will see that the temperature increase is EXACTLY in line with what has happened to the CO2 levels and temperature in our atmosphere.

Here, do the experiment yourself:

http://atmoz.org/blog/2007/08/15/greenhouse-gas-experiment/

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:07 am Post subject:

The idea of global warming means that at one time it was not warm and now it is. Otherwise it will not have 'warmed' but has always been warm! At best this might indicate how it remains warm.

At no point in time did Venus have an Oxygen/ Nitrogen atmosphere that eventually changed into what it has now. The comparison of the environmentalists is specious and I am still oppose any comparing Earth's system to Venus' system, they have never been similar and will remain dissimilar for as long as they exist.

There was a time when speculation lead us to believe that Venus' atmosphere was water vapor, this if course was prior to the time when any instruments told us otherwise. It has not changed from a water vapor atmosphere into a CO2 atmosphere it has always been primarily a CO2 atmosphere. So this using of Venus for the example of global warming is so very wrong. It is an invalid "apples and oranges" comparison used to pressure people into following some foolishness that will overthrow the world's economy and still produce nothing of value.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6817 Location: USA

Apparently it is the 'scientific method' to form a conclusion, latch on to any tenuous evidence which may or may not support that conclusion and ignore everything else....