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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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dabmci,
Hi, 
There is a code this cite uses that enables you to seperate other people's quotes in little white boxes to avoid confusion.
Code must be enabled in your profile.
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The code goes like this:
Place a bracket:"["
write the code: "quote="TBax" "
Place the end bracket: "]"
copy and paste the quoted section
Then place a bracket:"["
Followed by:" /quote "
Followed by: " ] "
The code should look like this, however you need to use brackets instead of paranthasies for the code to work:
(quote="TBax") Something I said. (/quote)
When done with the brackets it will look like this.
| TBax wrote: | | Something I said. |
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| dabmci wrote: | | I want to believe what the bible says and, John 16:2 that you quoted is what it says, but what does that mean? |
John 16:2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God.
It means people will rationalize their action even though they did a horrible thing.
| dabmci wrote: | 2. How many prophets ever made the claims he made about himself and in the process were killed because they (the Jewish people) thought they were equal with the Father.
....
Oh BTW you never answered that question with a yes or no. |
That wasn't a yes or no question. The answer was sufficient. Jesus didn't make that claim but tried to correct these people who did make it. Jesus' opposers also claimed Jesus was in league with Satan. Was that true as well??????? Why would you look at what the opposers say as truth?????????????
If your question is was Jesus greater then all the other prophets, the answer is yes. Does that make Jesus equal to God? No. Jesus was unique. He had a prehuman existence, was born a perfect human who perfectly kept the mosiac law, and recieved God's spirit to do amazing things to a degree never before seen. Jesus was sent by God and did his Father's will.
| danmci wrote: | | look, I understand that the "Word" trinity does not show up anywhere in the scriptures, i will give you that, but when you answer the second question I asked you I will tell you how and why many Christains come to the conclusion they do about how God makes himself know to man. |
I believe I understand your position as I have spoken to many who believe similar to you. Your second question isn't a catalyst to find truth, but to understand the opposers mind.  Like I said, Jesus opposers also said Jesus was in league with Satan. Was that true as well??????? Why would you look at what the opposers say as truth????????????? The Jews eventually succeeded in killing Jesus by sending him to Pilate with trumped up charges. Yes, with lies.  By their actions they showed who they follow, the father of the lie. 
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Some folks also have problems understanding how we can be joint-heirs with our brother Jesus in the heavnely family, when they assume that Jesus is god.
And yet we can do greater things then he could do.
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
And God does seem to insist that we are His sons, jsut liek Jesus is.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: |
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galen,
Hi,
What exactly was your point?
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Jesus is a son of God.
Jesus is our brother.
Jesus and us are joint-heirs together.
We are promised to hold greater authority to perform even greater things than Jesus did during his ministry.
We have tons of passages telling us that we are sons of God.
We are sons of God by spiritual birth, we are born again spiritually.
We are sons of God by adoption also. By fore-ordained, fore-thought, a planned decision; God choose each of us to be His son, and then He adopted us.
And then we are told to have the thoughts that Jesus had. To think of ourselves as Jesus thought of himself.
Jesus worshiped God. So should we.
I know that I am not God. Jesus knew that he was not God either. Our heavenly Father is God, the Creator of the universe. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
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galen,
Hi,
| galen wrote: | | I know that I am not God. Jesus knew that he was not God either. |
Oh.
| galen wrote: | | We are promised to hold greater authority to perform even greater things than Jesus did during his ministry. |
Not greater authority. We (true Christians as a collective group) would be able to contact more people and tell them the good news about God's kingdom then Jesus was able to during his 3 1/2 year ministry. Individually none of us could surpass Jesus, in ability or authority.
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: |
| galen wrote: | | We are promised to hold greater authority to perform even greater things than Jesus did during his ministry. |
Not greater authority. We (true Christians as a collective group) would be able to contact more people and tell them the good news about God's kingdom then Jesus was able to during his 3 1/2 year ministry. Individually none of us could surpass Jesus, in ability or authority. |
Is that how the passage reads? |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't say they would have greater authority, but do greater works because Jesus was leaving.
What work did Jesus do?
(Luke 4:43) But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. |
"Works" sounds plural to me.
From the previous context what works did they see Jesus doing that Jesus was saying that God was doing and not Jesus?
Jesus in the previous verses is contrasting His words to His works.
His works were not his words.
His works were those things which folks were seeing. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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galen,
Hi,
What works did Jesus do that you believe you have greater authority to preform, or perhaps can do on a greater scale?
I believe it is works motivated by principled love, and not because we have greater authority , but because Jesus couldn't stay as he was to provide the greatest act of love a human could preform. There is no greater way we can show love for our neighbors then by assisting them to live forever. There are other ways we show love, but for us that is the greatest.
What do you believe these works are? What is it you beleive you have greater authority then Jesus to do?
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: |
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It appears to me that nobody today is walking with that much power, however the promise sits there, apparently unfulfilled. So it must be yet future.
What multiple works did Jesus do?
That the crowds saw and marveled at?
Jesus spoke with power and authority. Jesus forgave people of their sins. Jesus healed the sick. Jesus performed many miracles. Jesus did many great works. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| galen wrote: | | It appears to me that nobody today is walking with that much power |
Nor will there be. 
Do you believe in or have faith in Jesus? If you do you will follow him in the works he did. Works motivated by love. Perhaps you cannot see the fulfillment because you are expecting something not intended.
(John 14:12) Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father.
The first century disciples fulfilled this and so can we.
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Agape,
TBax |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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On occasion I have known fellowships wherein healings were common place, miracles and odd 'coincidences'.
Folks lived in harmony and the Word of God moved greatly.
However we live in a world dominated by the adversary. Even in the lives of those great men of God, they generally have become over-whelmed by the cares of this world and the passage of years.
I believe that while we will see glimpses of this power here now, we will not see it truly and without the mist of a clouded mirror, until we have been gathered together in the heavens. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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galen,
Hi,
| galen wrote: | | However we live in a world dominated by the adversary. |
Indeed. And how do we combat him?
John 13:35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”
Rom 12:21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.
| galen wrote: | | I believe that while we will see glimpses of this power here now, we will not see it truly and without the mist of a clouded mirror, until we have been gathered together in the heavens. |
You mean like Jesus did when he went his way to the Father? The context shows it was here on earth.
(John 14:12) Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father.
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Agape,
TBax |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Galen don't be taken in by signs and wonders we've been warned that these can be things of the devil who is far more powerful than us.
God doesn't make guarantees when it comes to healings, they are a product of the Lord's grace and we have no 'right' to grace otherwise it stops being grace and becomes an obligation God has to us.
Tbax has it right when it comes to fighting the powers of this world. Loving others is the primary sign.
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 116
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| We can only stand approved by being workmen of the Word, studying it to understand. |
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