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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1803
Location: Macau, China
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Input on "I Hope You Burn In Hell" |
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A post was brought to my attention where a member said to another member, "I hope you burn in hell."
I was interested as to whether members felt this violated board rules as a personal attack, or whether it is a theological statement.
My opinion: I just think it's silly.
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Maverick1337
Goldfish
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Granted there are many disputes on this forum about things we agree and disagree about, saying that is not loving your enemies, doing good to those who hate you, blessing those who curse you, or praying for those mistreat you. Decision is your of course....
.....but we're to forgive as He did. =)
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Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place
unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith
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12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give
him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I would also add that the context would seem to be important. If the missive is delivered in the middle of a “food fight” with TSS like insults, then one can see the emotional silliness of the words. But if one writes such a statement as a sober indication of a serious and deeply seated religious desire to have this happen to another human being, then I could readily understand the chilling effect it might have on one’s spine.
Oddly enough as such was cast in my direction recently (as anyone can read) I can only state that the very real death threats I’ve received in person pale in comparison to what I felt when reading that one sentence aimed at me. (Keep your user ID list safe, admin.)
Heated words coming from the emotions are one thing. A cold calculated decision that is based upon interpretation of holy writ gets airplanes flown into buildings.
Yehu
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7003
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Technically I don't see it as a violation of board rules, dependent upon context of course. If it was posted alone as a method of flaming or trolling another member, then it would be considered a violation.
If it was in the context of a debate then it would be considered rude, and bad form.
Personally, I think that whoever posted such has much more significant matters to concern themselves with. I would assume (and we know I loathe assumptions) that the individual professes some sort of faith as that turn of phrase is unusual for someone not religiously inclined. If indeed that is the case then that individual has some serious repenting to do. The other thing is that such a epithet could simply be a desire for that individual to seek company in his or her eternal home.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7003
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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So...
I took the opportunity to review the issue in question and found that the line Admin was asking about was the least offensive thing being posted by the member in question.
As I said in my earlier post: that individual has some serious repenting to do.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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What I want to know is how anyone could hope another person 'burns in hell'. I wonder how anyone could possibly mean that. At any rate, it does seem to be a personal attack, no matter the context.
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | A post was brought to my attention where a member said to another member, "I hope you burn in hell."
I was interested as to whether members felt this violated board rules as a personal attack, or whether it is a theological statement.
My opinion: I just think it's silly. |
Great topic, BA!
The or one whole sentence of the actual words was:
"And ...., I hate you because of your blasphemy against God ,
and
I hope [saving you are elect], you burn in hell everlastingly..for your blasphemies.."
I think it is both an honest theological statement of opinion, which is also a silly-billy personal attack, silly since that person is actually telling us what or who or what words he does hate and disrespect himself as, and so self-defeatingly telling all others how and with what he can be re-attacked...as kids immediately realise.
Where both the speaker and the hearers break & violate the rules is Rule 4.
A q and a wd quickly establish that 99.9% of the persons who say words like that would freely admit that they hate and disrespect the persons to whom those words were said.
Another q and a wd also easily establish that 99.9% of the hearers or readers of those words would also freely admit that they also hate and disrespect those words and the persons who speak words like that.
But as in any free society,
Rule 4 must be a rule that can be broken since without that right to be wrong, we wd not know the real attitudes in people's hearts.
The only time it shd be enforced with consequences or penalty or fine is when we refuse to love and respect ourselves as any of the words by which we hate and disrespect all others when it is pointed out to us--and then only enforced with delay and patience in Love and Respect!
Now because we are all born with the one need and want to be loved and respected,
there is practically NO ONE who wd ever refuse to love & respect themselves when, with Love & Respect, it is pointed out to them how they can love and respect themselves even more to 100%, --- and so there wd practically be NO TIME when this Rule wd have to be enforced or enforced with punity on any one ever!!
Therefore,
as long as we have the Love and Respect in Rule 4 to combat Hate and Disrespect,
we can afford to allow and we want to allow the breaking of Rule 4,
since we know we have the tools of Love & Respect by which to correct and help the breakers of Rule 4 to keep Rule 4 for their own benefit.
Tom Jefferson, as usual, said it best 207 years to the day, 2 days ago!:smile
“But every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle.
We have called by different names brethren of the same principle.
We are all Republicans,
we are all Federalists.
If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form,
let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”
Thomas Jefferson,
First Inaugural Address First Inaugural Address,
March 4, 1801
Excellent!
I translate TJ in Love to mean this:
If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union of Love & Respect or to change this form of Love and Respect to Hate and Disrespect,
let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which the error of opinion of Hate & Disrespect may be tolerated where the Reason of Love & Respect is left free to combat it.
Hmmmmarvellous!smile
Hope that contributes to the common weal and welfare. smile
with the Love and Respect for all,
with the Malice & Disrespect for none,
which Love and Respect especially allows haters and disrespectors to express themselves,
atoz
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“Love sought is good, but given unsought is better.”
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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It is silly and immature.
But I also echo Ana's sentiment. I don't subcribe to the idea that the Bible passages that mention eternal torment are speaking of a literal burning place of torture to be endured forever, but I have to wonder what kind of a personality would wish that on anyone.
While I'm glad they are gone, I personally would not wish such a thing even on the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Jeffrey Dahmer, or any other person we would consider as evil.
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | What I want to know is how anyone could hope another person 'burns in hell'. I wonder how anyone could possibly mean that. At any rate, it does seem to be a personal attack, no matter the context. |
How anyone could hope & mean that is in Hatred of others:
When I hate others,
I must always wish that they can not suffer enough and must also wish them bad when they are bad,
and
must always secretly wish them bad even when they are good and I wish them well with my mouth.
Psalm 55:
21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart:
his words were softer than oil,
yet were they drawn swords.
Matthew 15:8
This people
draweth nigh unto me with their mouth,
and
honoureth me with their lips;
but their heart is far from me.
with Love for all,
which Love wishes
the bad good and the good better and the better best,
atoz
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"The person who discovered The Law of Love
was a far greater scientist than any of our modern scientists."
MKGANDHI
“Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.”
Albert Einstein
“Love sought is good, but given unsought is better.”
William Shakespeare, 12th Night |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 986
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I consider the comment "I hope you burn in hell" completely inappropriate, no matter who says it and to whom. I am unclear whether it should be a violation of board rules. I think it is worse than rude.
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
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Jamtomorrow
Banned
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
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It certainly strikes one as unpleasant to wish such a fate on a fellow sentient being; yet if it is felt sincerely, I've no doubt that the wisher of the fate feels him/herself unable to wish any other.
Given that theological discussion is a not uncommon topic on these boards, it may be a little less surprising to find sentiments like the one under discussion being expressed here rather than elswhere.
Levelling a direct accusation of being a paedophile at another board member - well, that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5286
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "I hope you burn in hell" |
This line has managed to get two warnings from me.
I won't give another. As christians were supposed to love & forgive not to "hope someone burns in hell"
Just my 2c,
Nobby |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | While I'm glad they are gone,.. |
I guess I missed something somewhere. My purposes for engaging such conversation was to try and get the poster to see the “disconnect” (that the New Covenant DOES preach we should love our neighbor and not want anyone to burn in hell), not to get anyone booted. A fall back purpose, should that fail (which I guess it did) would be to ensure that such kinds of expression would be surrounded with a sufficient number of posts from a sufficient number of believers so that the casual web surfer couldn’t cite this as a prime example to condemn Christ.
Yehu
(Yet I doubt this forum was created for the purposes of having such posters express condemnation and hatred.)
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: | | I consider the comment "I hope you burn in hell" completely inappropriate, no matter who says it and to whom. I am unclear whether it should be a violation of board rules. I think it is worse than rude. |
Heya Plo!
Where have u been?smile
But isn't open Hatred in honesty
better than
secret Hatred under the covering of a superficial thin disguise of Love? [U feel a song coming on?smile
'You can't hide your lying eyes!' Don Henley!]
Proverbs 27:
5 Open rebuke [in Love] is better than [open rebuke in Hate covering] secret love.
6Faithful are the wounds of a friend [who loves you at all times: Proverbs 17:17];
but the [open and loving] kisses of an enemy [who secretly hates you] are deceitful.
Proverbs 28:
23He that [in Hate or in Love] rebuketh a man
afterwards
shall find more favour
than
he that [in Love] flattereth with the tongue [while hating in his heart].
Better to let the Hate flow in words and especially in writing so we can correct it,
than to let it be hidden under cover and unwritten and uncorrected.
Hey, did you realise God is rude---in Love of the rude? smile
See Ps 18:25-27.
with Love and R,
atoz
_________________
"The person who discovered The Law of Love
was a far greater scientist than any of our modern scientists."
MKGANDHI
“Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.”
Albert Einstein
“Love sought is good, but given unsought is better.”
William Shakespeare, 12th Night |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 986
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Where have u been?smile
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Glad to be missed.  The flu. 
| atoz wrote: | Better to let the Hate flow in words and especially in writing so we can correct it,
than to let it be hidden under cover and unwritten and uncorrected.
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I must respectfully disagree. I was raised by my parents to avoid rudeness to all people not matter what. An age of manners in those days ......
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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