Statements about the Trinity Doctrine from various sources!

Texas · Kitten Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 135 Location: Ontario

Statements about the Trinity Doctrine from various sources!

The illustrated Bible Dictionary: "The word Trinity is not found in the Bible. It did not find a place formally in the theology of the Church till the 4th Century."

New Catholic Encyclopedia: "the Trinity is not directly and immediately {the] word of God."

The encyclopedia of Religion: "Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity."

New Catholic encyclopedia says: "The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]."

In his Book The Triune God, Jesuit Edmond Fortman admits: "The Old Testament ... tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit ... There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a [Trinity] within the Godhead ... Even to see in ["Old Testament"] suggestions or foreshadowings or 'veiled signs' of the Trinity of persons is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers."

A dictionary of Religious knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and ingrafted on the Christian faith." And The Paganism in our Christianity declares: "The origin of the [Trinity] is entirely pagan."

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity."

Jesuit Fortman states: "The New Testament writers ... give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are thre co-equal divine persons ... Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead."

The new encyclopedia Britannica observes: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament."

Bernard Lohse says in A short History of Christian Doctrine: "As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity.”

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly states: “The New Testament does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. ‘The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence’ [said Protestant theologian Karl Barth.”]

Yale University Professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the Trinity was apparently unknown; ... they say nothing about it.” --- Origin and Evolution of Religion.

Historian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord.” --- The Paganism in our Christianity -

The New International Dictionary of the New Testament Theology tells us: “Primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds.”

“The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the [Trinity] idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in one.” --- The Paganism in our Christianity --

“At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian ... It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the N[ew] T[estament] and other early Christian writings.” Encyclopedia of Religion and ethics.

“The formulation ‘one God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the fourth Century. ... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” -- New Catholic Encyclopedia

Pete · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject:

Therein lies the Protestant problem with 'Sola Scriptura'. They reject Catholic authority in favor of 'Bible alone' and then serve up a "pig's breakfast" theologically in an attempt to prove from Scripture what the Catholic Church invented out of thin air.

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:35 am Post subject:

Is there any scriptural references which suggest that Jesus would say things like:

"I have come to do MY will, NOT the Father's."
"I have come without being sent by the Father--on my own initiative"
"My teaching IS my own, and NOT that of the Father"
"I have come in my OWN name, not in the name of the Father"

No of course not.

Because if there was, then all of Jesus' teaching would fail and He could not be honored as He is today.

Dust · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:39 am Post subject:

ragman13 · Alley Cat Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 192

I know that this thread is inactive but I have run across a lot of non-Trinitarians lately and there argument has not been against the Trinity as much as it has been against the Deity of Christ. Many have hinted that the Doctrine of the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union of Christ are not presented until after the 4th century.

Texas quoted:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1772

ragman13,

People claim to see a trinity in the inspired Bible. Is it any wonder they would also see it in other early writings?

ragman13 · Alley Cat Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 192

TBax it is not the familiarities between JW's and C, that I take issue with it is the differences. Lets look at the statements of Ignatius.

1)

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1772

ragman13,

It appears you are changing the subject to attack JW's instead of actually supporting your points. Fine. I'll play that game.

1.) The Watchtower agrees that the Holy spirit is often personified, yet the Bible refers to it as "it" in one verse. Would you call a person who is suppose to be God "it"?

John 1:32 John also bore witness, saying: “I viewed the spirit coming down as a dove out of heaven, and it remained upon him.

In other verses it is refered to as God's finger. The Holy Spirit is poured out upon the disciples. Not something done of a person. Cool

2.) Incarnation doesn't indicate Jesus was God, although it is often times use to mean that by trinitarians.
It also means:
1. an incarnate being or form.
2. a living being embodying a deity or spirit.
3. assumption of human form or nature.

Jesus was a spirit prior to coming to earth. Jesus was a god. Jesus assumed human form.

3)

Mattathias · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: