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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1804
Location: Macau, China
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: CNN: Americans switching faiths, dropping out |
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CHECK LINK
Excerpt:
The U.S. religious marketplace is extremely volatile, with nearly half of American adults leaving the faith tradition of their upbringing to either switch allegiances or abandon religious affiliation altogether, a new survey finds.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey estimates the United States is 78 percent Christian and about to lose its status as a majority Protestant nation, at 51 percent and slipping.
The survey found the Roman Catholic Church has lost more members than any faith tradition.
The study released Monday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life is unusual for it sheer scope, relying on interviews with more than 35,000 adults to document a diverse and dynamic U.S. religious population.
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1257
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Paragraph from the article Admin posted the link to: | Quote: | | "In the past, certain religions had a real holding power, where people from one generation to the next would stay," said Penn State University sociologist Roger Finke, who consulted in the survey planning. "Right now, there is a dropping confidence in organized religion, especially in the traditional religious forms." |
What do you think the reason for the dropping confidence is? I think many factors have eroded the publics trust in organized religion:
1) Changing doctrinal views. Churches have switched positions on matters of importance over the years (like the trinity)
2) Many Preachers spend too much time preaching about tithing etc...and too little time teaching about God.
3) Scandals that have rocked churches and communities and have left many wounded parties in their wake.
4) I believe there is a perception in many churches that women are not valued in the same way as men.
5) Family ties are not as tight as they used to be so the familial tie to the church is not as strong.
6) Life has become increasingly busy and chaotic and there is no time in many peoples lives for church.
I'm sure there are a lot of reasons. These are just a few thoughts I came up with.
Luv
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1467
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The U.S. religious marketplace is extremely volatile, with nearly half of American adults leaving the faith tradition of their upbringing to either switch allegiances or abandon religious affiliation altogether, a new survey finds. |
Yeah, where I live, organized churches are dying all over the place, but non-denominational churches are springing up like crazy and growing. I don't think this is a bad thing at all, personally.
| luvnlife wrote: | | 6) Life has become increasingly busy and chaotic and there is no time in many peoples lives for church. |
Sure, but have a new video game system put on the market, and people are camping out in front of stores for days!!!!
Wiiiiiiiiii....................  |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | Yeah, where I live, organized churches are dying all over the place, but non-denominational churches are springing up like crazy and growing. I don't think this is a bad thing at all, personally. |
That's kinda what I see too. From what I read, non-denominational churches are thriving while the established denominational churches are losing members.
Here is a piece from another article that this thread reminded me of:
Americans Embrace Various Alternatives to a Conventional Church Experience as Being Fully Biblical
| Quote: | Change of Heart
For decades, American Christians, who comprise more than four of our every five adults, assumed they had one legitimate way to practice their faith: through involvement in a conventional church. But new research shows that this mind set is no longer prevalent in the U.S. The latest Barna study shows that a majority of adults now believe that there are various biblically legitimate alternatives to participation in a conventional church.
Each of six alternatives was deemed by a most adults to be “a complete and biblically valid way for someone who does NOT participate in the services or activities of a conventional church to experience and express their faith in God.” Those alternatives include engaging in faith activities at home, with one’s family (considered acceptable by 89% of adults); being active in a house church (75%); watching a religious television program (69%); listening to a religious radio broadcast (68%); attending a special ministry event, such as a concert or community service activity (68%); and participating in a marketplace ministry (54%).
Smaller proportions of the public consider other alternatives to be complete and biblically valid ways of experiencing and expressing their faith in God. Those include interacting with a faith-oriented website (45%) and participating in live events via the Internet (42%). |
And concerning house churches, the article had these interesting comments:
| Quote: | Pastors Accept House Churches
In a companion study conducted by The Barna Group among Senior Pastors of Protestant churches, two out of three pastors agreed that “house churches are legitimate Christian churches.” Surprisingly, pastors from mainline churches were more likely than pastors from other Protestant congregations to consider house churches to be biblically defensible forms of church experience. Among the pastors least likely to support the legitimacy of house churches were pastors who earn more than $75,000 annually; African-American pastors; and pastors of charismatic or Pentecostal churches. |
I also don't see it as necessarily a bad thing that people are abandoning the established mainline denominations. It doesn't necessarily mean Americans are abandoning interest in God or in worshipping Him. In some of these alternative ways of worship, such as a small house church, there is perhaps a stronger sense of closeness to other members of the group. I know the joy of being involved in a small Bible study or fellowship group and feeling like you and the others are growing closer to God together. In a larger church, many may not feel that sense of involvement.
I know pastors often strongly discourage their church members from getting involved in these unsupervised little groups, and certainly some of them do end up way out in left field. But it would seem that there are many Americans of faith who are turning to home fellowship meetings and finding they meet their spiritual needs, where attending an established church could not.
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1257
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | luvnlife wrote:
6) Life has become increasingly busy and chaotic and there is no time in many peoples lives for church.
| Quote: | Sure, but have a new video game system put on the market, and people are camping out in front of stores for days!!!!
Wiiiiiiiiii.................... |
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Ah, the irony of it all!
I didn't say I think it's right but I do think it's fact. We do at least find 2 hours a week to go to church. I also study in an intimate little setting with a few close friends at work on my lunch hour once a week (like Zathrus mentioned) and study on my own and on this forum several more hours per week.
When there's a will, there is usually a way.....
Luv
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 986
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | Yeah, where I live, organized churches are dying all over the place, but non-denominational churches are springing up like crazy and growing. I don't think this is a bad thing at all, personally.
|
A lot of stories about people abandoning churches or moving churches have much more to say about social conditions in which people live (and want to live) than about their faiths. We've come a long way from the days when someone who didn't go to a particular church every Sunday would be ostracized by socially respectable people. These days the main reason for going to church is that you believe in the institution. Nowadays people move churches fairly often because -- unlike in previous decades -- they can.
That having been said, the choice of a church often leads to new tensions and problems. A friend of mine who is a devout Christian is attending a church where she loves the sermons and the warm loving community she finds there. But she finds that she has political disagreements with most of the congregation even though she likes them as people. These kinds of tensions often make it difficult for people to stay at one church. Shopping around becomes a natural strategy for looking for a better fit.
Also, it sometimes only takes a conflict with a single person to drive someone away from a congregation. Larger churches have more opportunities for disputes than smaller ones. So that may also be a factor in the selection of smaller "house churches."
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1467
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: |
A lot of stories about people abandoning churches or moving churches have much more to say about social conditions in which people live (and want to live) than about their faiths. We've come a long way from the days when someone who didn't go to a particular church every Sunday would be ostracized by socially respectable people. These days the main reason for going to church is that you believe in the institution. Nowadays people move churches fairly often because -- unlike in previous decades -- they can. |
You're right, and that's the one aspect of the old time churches that I'm going to miss - loyalty.
On one hand I think people are sick and tired of the endless doctrine and dogma that denominations are known for, so leaving all that behind, the non-denominational churches seem to be concentrating more on the Bible, and that's a good thing.
However, having the convenience to "shop around" for a church.........seems a little........what's the word I'm looking for............selfish? to me.
Constant complaints- I didn't like the music,
I didn't like the pastor's wife..........
I didn't like........whatever.......
It's a little troubling. Are we going to church to worship God, or worship us?
See what I mean? |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | the non-denominational churches seem to be concentrating more on the Bible, and that's a good thing. |
What I see is they seem to be focusing more on people. They are working hard to find out where people are at today, and making their message relevant to people today, and doing the worship so that people today can more easily connect with it.
Yes, they do teach a lot of Bible, though I guess we could debate over how accurate, or "biblical" the teachings they form from scriptural texts are. I believe it varies. In general, I think the ones who affirm and support people, who make it their focus to be there for the people, are doing a great thing.
| eleven wrote: | However, having the convenience to "shop around" for a church.........seems a little........what's the word I'm looking for............selfish? to me.
Constant complaints- I didn't like the music,
I didn't like the pastor's wife..........
I didn't like........whatever.......
It's a little troubling. Are we going to church to worship God, or worship us?
See what I mean? |
A good point. There has to be some common sense. But there are always going to be those who lack it. I came from a background in charismatic and Pentecostal churches, where the pastors always were real hard on people having those kinds of complaints. But I'm not sure their discouraging people from church shopping because they don't like the pastor's wife at their church ever helped.
Actually all that guilt preaching about "If you leave the church because you just don't agree with something the pastor preached, then you're unstable, unfaithful, an immature baby Christian, a "gospel grasshopper", hopping around from church to church" really only accomplished one thing in my life: it kept me hanging on in a few churches where I didn't belong for long after I should have left them.
I'm not fussy about the worship music, and I've never had any trouble with any pastor's wife. I agree some reasons for looking for another church seem rather petty. But I think the best approach is for pastors and ministries to let people know they are free to fellowship and to be fed where they like, and if there is someplace else where they believe they might fit in better, they should go there.
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Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Zathrus wrote:
| Quote: | | But I think the best approach is for pastors and ministries to let people know they are free to fellowship and to be fed where they like, and if there is someplace else where they believe they might fit in better, they should go there. |
I agree for it is for freedom that Christ set us free. Kudos to pastors and ministries who teach freedom...but they are few in number, imho.
I thank God for His faithfulness in leading and feeding. 
Di
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Diane wrote: | Zathrus wrote:
| Quote: | | But I think the best approach is for pastors and ministries to let people know they are free to fellowship and to be fed where they like, and if there is someplace else where they believe they might fit in better, they should go there. |
I agree for it is for freedom that Christ set us free. Kudos to pastors and ministries who teach freedom...but they are few in number, imho.
I thank God for His faithfulness in leading and feeding.
Di |
Hi Di,
Ditto: I believe that everyone shd be free to go anywhere and elsewhere, but that if members are properly fed, they will never leave....except for incidental reasons like relocation and such like.
99.9% of churches and pastors out there try to make their members feel obligated to stay due to that thing about tithing!
with the EIOU of 100% Love and the optional IOU of 10% tithes,
atoz
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1467
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: |
99.9% of churches and pastors out there try to make their members feel obligated to stay due to that thing about tithing!
with the EIOU of 100% Love and the optional IOU of 10% tithes,
atoz |
Really? You think that's what keeps people there?
I would think the opposite is true -
That people hate the tithing message, and leave because they feel pressured.
Another big reason I think people leave their churches is because the clergy are unapproachable.
People are getting tired of being talked at, and would rather be talked with........if that's a proper term. |
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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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atoz wrote:
| Quote: | | 99.9% of churches and pastors out there try to make their members feel obligated to stay due to that thing about tithing! |
Hi atoz!
I agree.....imagine what would happen if all the churches closed due to lack of funds. Would the church still live? Ya know it will! The one not built by human hands will live forever.
Love, Di
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The Beautiful Heresy – If believing that God is loving enough, powerful enough, and wise enough to save all of His creation makes me a heretic, sign me up. |
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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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eleven wrote:
| Quote: | | That people hate the tithing message |
Hi eleven,
Could be that they hate it because it was abolished in the New Covenant. But the pastors are still preaching the law.....it's about control, imo.
Love, Di
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The Beautiful Heresy – If believing that God is loving enough, powerful enough, and wise enough to save all of His creation makes me a heretic, sign me up. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1257
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Plotinus: | Quote: | However, having the convenience to "shop around" for a church.........seems a little........what's the word I'm looking for............selfish? to me.
Constant complaints- I didn't like the music,
I didn't like the pastor's wife..........
I didn't like........whatever.......
It's a little troubling. Are we going to church to worship God, or worship us?
See what I mean? |
What if it's bigger things that you don't believe that cause you to 'shop around' though? What if a lot of time at church is spent on announcements and not much is spent on teaching the congregation? What if an inordinate amount of time is spent trolling for tithe instead of teaching charitable giving and being a cheerful giver? What if the church teaches the Trinity doctrine or Universal Salvation and after studying these teachings, you realize they are not biblically based/supported?
I go to a church that teaches the Trinity. I don't buy in to that particular doctrine. I have called over 20 churches in this area and every single one of them teach the trinity but one....Jehovah's Witnesses.
Being loyal is one thing. If it's with the right heart-set and for the right reasons, that's great. But being loyal to a church or congregation because your parents, neighbors, friends and siblings go there is the wrong reason to attend a church.
Luv 
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For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1257
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Diane wrote: | atoz wrote:
| Quote: | | 99.9% of churches and pastors out there try to make their members feel obligated to stay due to that thing about tithing! |
Hi atoz!
I agree.....imagine what would happen if all the churches closed due to lack of funds. Would the church still live? Ya know it will! The one not built by human hands will live forever.
Love, Di |
This is a very interesting point. When you hear about churches in other countries, for example, they are often going to church in the great outdoors under an awning or in a tent or a run down old building or trailer and they are singing and smiling and learning just as we in America do in our great big fancy sturdy stain-glass decorated buildings, many which include kitchens, daycares, schools, gymnsiums, fancy podiums, altars, baptismal pools and padded chairs or benches that will hold 200 or more people.
I think sometimes we forget how good we have it here and we can no longer discern between want and necessity.
Luv
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Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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