ragman13
Fierce Poodle
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 299
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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P123 Said
| Quote: | | There is no law of cause and effect, and in fact we know for a fact that matter can be created spontaneously out of empty space. |
What fact?
| Quote: | This question has been answered *many* times on this forum. The answer is that it is a nonsensical question. Since time started at the Big Bang, there was no 'before the Big Bang'.
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No time before big bang right? I got that.
| Quote: | No Pete, you don't have this straight. You seem to be having a very hard time accepting that there was no 'before the Big Bang'.
It's not that there was nothing before the Big Bang. That's not the case. There literally wasn't any 'before the Big Bang'. You can't even talk about there being nothing before the Big Bang. |
Got this too. I think that we agree on this. But the argument from wik that you presented disagrees with all of your points.
1) The any that you talk about "not being" before the big bang. Does this include space?
2) You are very adamant that there was no time before the big bang. Ok now let’s look at some quotes from your wika argument.
| Quote: | | As the scale of time and space being discussed shrinks, the energy of the virtual particles increases. Since energy curves spacetime according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, this suggests that at sufficiently small scales the energy of the fluctuations would be large enough to cause significant departures from the smooth spacetime seen at larger scales, giving spacetime a "foamy" character. |
So in the first paragraph of the theory we have Time, space, motion, and energy.
Another quote from the article
| Quote: | | Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times. |
Remember that none of the arguments that you present can allow for time since as you say there was no time before the Big Bang.
So we both understand the meaning of time and are using the same term I suggest that we use the wika definition of time
| Quote: | | Time is a basic component of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. |
So any theory that you present can not involve any movement.
Every effect must have a cause.
The universe is an effect.
Therefore the universe has a cause.
This cause is God.
Sorry for the long post hope you all have a good day.
Last edited by ragman13 on Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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