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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 395
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: a Quicke Qeustion. |
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It is almost 2am and I don`t have much time to reply on any other posts!
But last night I thought about a question for an Atheist.
Who created natural law?
I mean who decided how this universe works?
Who decided the North Pole of a magnet should attract the South pole, and repel the north pole?
Or how did the natural law come in to existence?
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And another question for an atheist, which none have answered before, Where did the Big Bang come from?
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Prys die Heer! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: a Quicke Qeustion. |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: | It is almost 2am and I don`t have much time to reply on any other posts!
But last night I thought about a question for an Atheist.
Who created natural law?
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Why did someone have to define the laws of physics? Why can't they be properties of matter, energy, and spacetime?
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
And another question for an atheist, which none have answered before, Where did the Big Bang come from?
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This question has been answered *many* times on this forum. The answer is that it is a nonsensical question. Since time started at the Big Bang, there was no 'before the Big Bang'.
Human common sense and intuition don't work for explaining the Big Bang. The same goes for extreme gravity and velocities approaching the speed of light.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pete
Big Lion
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 992
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: Re: a Quicke Qeustion. |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
And another question for an atheist, which none have answered before, Where did the Big Bang come from?
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This question has been answered *many* times on this forum. The answer is that it is a nonsensical question. Since time started at the Big Bang, there was no 'before the Big Bang'.
Human common sense and intuition don't work for explaining the Big Bang. The same goes for extreme gravity and velocities approaching the speed of light. |
Let's see if I've got this straight. Before "Big Bang" there was nothing -zero,zip, not even the elements necessary to cause a "Big Bang." Suddenly a whole universe appears out of nowhere. No cause, no reason, it just suddenly shows up. Very logical, scientific thinking going on here. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: a Quicke Qeustion. |
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| Pete wrote: |
Let's see if I've got this straight. Before "Big Bang" there was nothing -zero,zip, not even the elements necessary to cause a "Big Bang." Suddenly a whole universe appears out of nowhere. No cause, no reason, it just suddenly shows up. Very logical, scientific thinking going on here. |
No Pete, you don't have this straight. You seem to be having a very hard time accepting that there was no 'before the Big Bang'.
It's not that there was nothing before the Big Bang. That's not the case. There literally wasn't any 'before the Big Bang'. You can't even talk about there being nothing before the Big Bang.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6364
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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so you saying P123,
there was no beginning before the beginning, which means there was no end to the end of that prior to the beginning?
without beginning or end? 
hugs
lone |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | so you saying P123,
there was no beginning before the beginning, which means there was no end to the end of that prior to the beginning?
without beginning or end?
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Be careful; you're starting to sound like atoz!
Think of the Big Bang as a movie. The Big Bang happens right at the beginning of the movie at time 0.
If someone says to you, "Hey, let's rewind a bit; I want to see what came before that.", you won't be able to rewind, because you're already at the absolute beginning of the movie.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: BC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Regarding wrapping our minds around the idea that time started with the big bang: I find it helps to think of time not as a straight line but as a sphere - analogous to the example of what is north of the north pole.
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6364
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I think time is a circle..
you every watch Peggy Sue got Married?
And she's talking with Richard Norvak about Richard's Burito Theory..Time overlaps itself.
but then again..
I'ts just a movie.. 
hugs
lone |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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P123 said | Quote: | | Think of the Big Bang as a movie. The Big Bang happens right at the beginning of the movie at time 0. |
Ok so where did the movie come from?
You are not answering the question of what caused the "Big Bang".
Let’s say that prior to the BB The potential was there for the BB even though there was nothing. How did "it" (for lack of a better word) become actuality? Can you give me an example of anything moving from potentiality to actuality without a cause? Without a cause we would still be at nothing "time 0". Why is it bad science to say that every effect must have a cause?
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | P123 said | Quote: | | Think of the Big Bang as a movie. The Big Bang happens right at the beginning of the movie at time 0. |
Ok so where did the movie come from?
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Your mistake is that you are assuming that it had to come from somewhere (or even could have come from somewhere), and this assumption isn't in any way grounded in science.
There is no law of cause and effect, and in fact we know for a fact that matter can be created spontaneously out of empty space. It's also impossible for the Big Bang singularity to have 'come from somewhere'. To come from implies that something happened before, but that can't be the case if time started at the Big Bang.
You guys are getting hung up on your intuitions. Human intuition is WORTHLESS when it comes to singularities. Not only are we talking about ridiculously (infinitely?) strong gravitational fields here, but we're also talking about quantum mechanics.
Your intuition is worthless when we talk about high velocities or massive gravity. It's also worthless when we're talking about quantum mechanics. The Big Bang combined all three of these, so of course your intuition is clouding your reasoning!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Thanks
P123 said
| Quote: | | we know for a fact that matter can be created spontaneously out of empty space |
At least six months of reading from this one statement of yours
_________________
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it. —Thomas Carlyle
Shh. Don't tell anyone that I am a Fundamentalist! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 395
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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P123456789!
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Time to give you a science lesson!
For every action there is a reaction!
Thus for Every reaction there must be an action, for what else is it reacting to?
Any form of combustion, explosion or bang is always the reaction!
Thus the Big Bang is impossible, because it is a reaction without an action.
There is no action since there is no time in which it can occur! Nor is there space where it can occur!
You must really lack common Sense to think Space, Time and Matter can exist without each other.
If there were no time, when would you put it?
If there were no space, where would you put it?
If there were no matter, what would you put there?
Thus for something to come into existence from something that does not exist in space and time, is scientifically impossible!
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And another.
The universe is run by contras of anabolic and catabolic processes,
Fotosintesis, Respiration
Life, Death
Retraction, expansion
Pull, push
Build, break
Fission, Fusion
and it always starts with an anabolic process.
This is common sense, You need something to break, before you can break it, Um....................... Duh!
Yet You still say the universe was formed by a catabolic process, This is Very anti-scientific!
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You also said!
| Quote: | | fact that matter can be created spontaneously out of empty space |
The first law of thermodynamics!
1# Matter can not be created, nor destroyed!
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E=MC^2
Energy= Mass times the speed of light (square)
Thus to have energy, you need mass and speed.
To have mass you need matter, to have speed you need distance(space) and time. Because speed= Distance/Time.
Thus to have energy you need Space and time and matter. Yet you say space, time and matter came into existence from a bang which needed energy. This is scientifically impossible, since the bang did not have energy to occur.
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Just shows you how scientifically impossible the Big bang really is. I think you should stick with your computer, because Physics is just not your thing.
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Prys die Heer! |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 395
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: a Quicke Qeustion. |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Why did someone have to define the laws of physics? Why can't they be properties of matter, energy, and space time?
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Okay, who made them Properties of Matter, energy and space time? How did it become properties of M,E,S?
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Here is another question...........
What is your definition of death?
I mean, when do you classify someone as dead?
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Prys die Heer! |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1803
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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GodDidIt.
You can just copy and paste my response in case I forget to check back.
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