|
|
| Author |
Message |
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7679
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| RevJP wrote: | | P... wrote: | | And you believe that homosexuality was not 'normal' or 'accepted' among Romans?!? |
What did I post exactly? |
Not much. As far as I can tell, you have yet to give your opinion on the matter. You make a weak statement in the passive voice:
| Quote: | | No one said it was 'such a taboo'. It was simply asserted that it was not an accepted behavior. |
and you say this,
| Quote: | | All in all P, I think rufus made a valid point. It may have been widespread, it may have been flagrant, but that doesn't mean it was acceptable by societal standards. |
,
Which doesn't exactly tell us what *you* think, either.
All we know is that you don't think that rufus's statement was immediately and obviously wrong.
For the record, what is your opinion on this matter? Do you believe that homosexuality was accepted by the ancient Greeks and Romans?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6110
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh snap, did I own the thread?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7679
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| FFT wrote: | | Oh snap, did I own the thread? |
Yup, you sure did!
How come you're so well-versed in Roman history and literature?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5159
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
P123 did you notice how close you & FFT are on your number of posts? 
_________________
Much Love Nobby
CVP Smilies
dictionary Bible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7679
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nobby wrote: | | P123 did you notice how close you & FFT are on your number of posts? |
Yeah, but I'm still winning! (I spend way too much time on here!) 
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6110
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| P1234567890 wrote: | | How come you're so well-versed in Roman history and literature? |
All of the passages he mentioned but didn't quote are freely available online. I've got quite a bit of Roman and Greek history under my belt as well just as an outcome of my interest in their mythologies, though. Some of it from Latin classes but most of it from being bored on the internet.
| Nobby wrote: | | P123 did you notice how close you & FFT are on your number of posts? |
I used to have the most on the forum but then I got jaded with this whole thing for a while. At this point I mostly only pay attention to topics that sound interesting rather than opening up every thread with new posts.
And atoz has decidedly taken the title of "most posts per day" though I'd wager that mine have a great deal more content on average. Haven't really noticed the post leader (TSS) much though he's obviously still posting.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5159
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
FFT, I wonder how many zero to less than five word posts Tss has? 
Don't want to hijack your thread!
_________________
Much Love Nobby
CVP Smilies
dictionary Bible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rufus
Big Hamster
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 97
Location: about 20 miles west of Lake Michigan
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would encourage people reading this thread to note the references on the opening post, look them up for themselves, and draw their own conclusions. Here they are again, plus the one from Plato:
| Quote: | I think that the pleasure is to be deemed natural which arises out of the intercourse between men and woman; but that the intercourse of men with men, or of women with women, is contrary to nature.
Plato: Laws, Book 1.636 |
| Quote: | Gradually Nero's vices gained the upper hand...
Having tried to turn the boy Sporus into a girl by castration, he went through a wedding ceremony with him...and treated him as wife...
Some say that Nero did, in fact, commit incest with his mother Agrippina...
Nero practised every kind of obscenity...
Nero's freedman Doryphorus then married Nero just as he himself married Sporus. And on the wedding night Nero imitated the moans of a girl being deflowered.
Suetonius, Twelve Caesars 6.27-29 |
| Quote: | What does the catamite (homosexual) lose? His manhood. What does an Adulterer lose? His self-respect, self control and good behaviour.
Epictetus, Discourses 2.10.17-18 |
| Quote: | There is no wild beast, homosexual, Nero, or Phalaris but obeys the twitchings of impulse.
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 3.16 |
Also see:
Tacitus: Annals 15.37
Epictetus Discourses 1.16.14
Epictetus Discourses 3.1.30-32
These books are easily accessible. They are on line (use your search engines), and print versions are found in most public libraries and book stores.
++++++++
| Quote: |
There's a Wikipedia article on it (Homosexuality in ancient Rome)
|
Here's a wikipedia article about the reliability and bias of wikipedia:
| Quote: |
Wikipedia has been accused of exhibiting systemic bias...
some university lecturers specifically prohibit Wikipedia citations...
Some critics claim that Wikipedia's open structure makes it an easy target for... those with an agenda to push
LINK: from the part about reliability and bias |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6110
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Or hey since you've brought this back up again you could also read my first post in the thread where I discussed each of the passages brought up and posted context for a couple of them.
But yes, all of the references are freely available online. I'd encourage anyone that's curious to check them out as I, personally, have found the reading quite interesting. Plus it's always nice to be able to systematically shut down people with silly arguments that neither they nor the people they copied them from truly studied.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
