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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7626
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| The Barbarian wrote: | Wise merely says that his interpretation of Scripture overrides the evidence as far as he is concerened. This is entirely honest and straightforward.
I don't see how he reconciles the two, but I give him credit for his honesty.
I think Harold Coffin would also qualify. In the Arkansas evolution trial, he testified that if it were not for his understanding of Scripture, the evidence would lead him to think the world was very old. |
I'm not questioning their honesty. I give them full credit for that and in fact applaud them, since intellectually honest Young Earth Creationists are so hard to find.
However, I *am* challenging their credentials as scientists.
If someone says that no amount of evidence can change their minds, and doesn't believe in standard scientific principles, then said person should not be called a scientist.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
.....
If someone says that no amount of evidence can change their minds, and doesn't believe in standard scientific principles, then said person should not be called a scientist. |
atoz: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So since you are a scientist and call yourself a scientist,
you do entertain the hypothesis of creation!!!!?!!!
Awesome!
Is this true, or am I fooling myself?
In Love for both creation and evolution,
atoz, a perfect fool and foolishly perfect!smile |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7626
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: |
So since you are a scientist and call yourself a scientist,
you do entertain the hypothesis of creation!!!!?!!!
Awesome!
Is this true, or am I fooling myself? |
Being a scientist, I am *extremely* open-minded to all possibilities, but science also dictates that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so creation doesn't even get off the ground, because there isn't even one iota of evidence that God exists, let alone the extraordinary evidence that would be required.
It's the same with dragons, pixies, vampires, witches, and UFOs. The evidence for them would have to be pretty compelling to make a believer out of me.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | atoz wrote: |
So since you are a scientist and call yourself a scientist,
you do entertain the hypothesis of creation!!!!?!!!
Awesome!
Is this true, or am I fooling myself? |
Being a scientist, I am *extremely* open-minded to all possibilities, ..... |
atoz: That's all I know and all I need to know!
The rest will come!
Your imagination will do the rest!smile
I knew you had a lexicon of imaginary stuff you already believe in!
You just have no proof---yet!smile
Now we have you on record that you are extremely open-minded to the possibility of creation and etc!
Thank you!
Excellent!
It's just that you find NO evidence, right? No proof?
Well!
That is exactly what I believe:
I believe in evolution, it's just that I see NO evidence nor proof!
Now I am cool.sigh
Finally!
With the Proof of Love that makes me see the possibility of creation and evolution and whatever other theory is created or that evolves,smile
atoz |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7626
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: |
Now we have you on record that you are extremely open-minded to the possibility of creation and etc!
Thank you!
Excellent!
It's just that you find NO evidence, right? No proof?
Well!
That is exactly what I believe:
I believe in evolution, it's just that I see NO evidence nor proof! |
The difference is that there is no evidence for creation, whereas you purposefully close your eyes and willfully refuse to see the evidence for evolution.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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The Barbarian
Hamster
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a scientist, and I believe in Him. For a Chrstian, evolution is just part of God's creation in this world.
I can't use science to test that however, because it is a religious idea, and the supernatural is beyond the reach of science. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Here are a couple of videos featuring the subject of this thread, Kent Hovind.
In THIS one, Hovind tells us how much water it takes to cover the surface of Earth.
THIS one is a Q&A between Hovind and a molecular geneticist.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7626
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | Here are a couple of videos featuring the subject of this thread, Kent Hovind.
In THIS one, Hovind tells us how much water it takes to cover the surface of Earth.
THIS one is a Q&A between Hovind and a molecular geneticist. |
What amazes me is how we can listen to this, and YECs can listen to this, and the YECs think that Hovind 'won the debate'.
The guy is such an idiot and fraud that he would lose a debate even if he were the only participant.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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In that second one he gets asked a simple question less than half way through the video and never manages to answer it. I don't know how anyone could think he 'won' that.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7626
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | In that second one he gets asked a simple question less than half way through the video and never manages to answer it. I don't know how anyone could think he 'won' that. |
The guy couldn't reason his way out of a paper bag... Which is probably why he's languishing in jail right now. If he were smarter, then maybe they wouldn't have caught him for tax evasion.
Don't you wish you were the accountant working for the IRS that put him away? 
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6092
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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One can win a debate without actually answering anything. It's actually really easy to win a real life debate if you don't have to worry about being honest.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Pete
Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, nine pages on Kent Hovind. To think that I have never heard of this guy, and yet so many comments. Who in the heck is he, and why all the interest? He must infuriate a lot of folks.
I could Google him up, nah!, and I'm not going to wade through nine pages. Besides, it's nap time for us old folks. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | One can win a debate without actually answering anything. It's actually really easy to win a real life debate if you don't have to worry about being honest. |
True enough. If you can't answer a simple question, though, it sure doesn't make you look good!
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6092
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well of course if one examines it later it's not particularly impressive, but I haven't seen many Hovind supporters really look at his arguments.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well, watching the video is of course 'after the fact' but as you watch it the first time it might as well be live. The geneticist kept asking about applications, and Hovind kept bringing up weird analogies, so then the geneticist would ask again. At one point Hovind actually tried to answer the question (something about classifying creatures into their 'kinds') but the guy was asking about applications, so the taxonomy thing didn't really apply. It doesn't take more than one viewing to get that he was repeatedly not answering the question.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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