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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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God gives life!!!!
Thus God has the authority to take it.
Or does God sin against God?
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Prys die Heer! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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So we have the right to take any life which we create?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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How can we 'create' life?
We can make life, but we cannot create it.
Create:
to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
Make:
to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts, etc.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Actually, we can already make viruses *from scratch*. And we're not talking about just making copies of previous viruses. We can make brand new ones.
Now, whether or not a virus is 'alive' is arguable. But it's only a matter of time before we can make bacteria and other simple life forms from scratch, and then after that we'll start making more complicated life from scratch.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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So I guess my question is, if God has the moral authority to kill humans because He created their lives, then if and when we finally are able to create life from scratch in the laboratory, then will we have the moral authority to destroy that life?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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making something from 'scratch' is still making something from something.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | making something from 'scratch' is still making something from something. |
So your answer is 'no'?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I'm just pointing out the errors in the formulation of your question.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | I'm just pointing out the errors in the formulation of your question. |
And what's your opinion on the matter?
Let's say that humans develop the technology for creating humans from atoms.
God created humans from atoms, and people seem to think that God can take life because He gave it (the Egypt example is a good one of this).
So if we create a human from atoms, then we give the life, so are we morally allowed to take it, too?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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I cannot offer you an opinion on a question that makes no sense. God created life, He created atoms, so anything we do with any of it is under the auspices of the dominion He gave us.
It's the old 'get your own dirt' joke.
The other thing to consider is the soul. If you truly wish to delve into the question you are asking, then actually explore all of the philosophical and theological ramifications and aspects of the question before you ask someone to answer such an ill-conceived hypothetical.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | I cannot offer you an opinion on a question that makes no sense. God created life, He created atoms, so anything we do with any of it is under the auspices of the dominion He gave us.
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But atoms are not alive. If we take them and organize them so that they form something which is alive, then it can certainly be claimed that we created the life.
| RevJP wrote: |
The other thing to consider is the soul. If you truly wish to delve into the question you are asking, then actually explore all of the philosophical and theological ramifications and aspects of the question before you ask someone to answer such an ill-conceived hypothetical. |
What's wrong with the hypothetical? IF we take raw chemicals and turn them into a live human, then is it morally justifiable for us to kill that human?
It's not a complicated question.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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It is not a complicated question at all. But its premise is faulty and thus it serves as a strawman.
It is as if you are asking if someone builds a sandcastle do they have the right to destroy it.
Until you get around the philosophical, theological, and scientific ramifications of the idea of creating life, then the question serves no purpose.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | But its premise is faulty
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Which premise? I'm saying 'IF'. That's what makes this a hypothetical. Are you saying that there is some other premise beyond what I have written?
| RevJP wrote: |
Until you get around the philosophical, theological, and scientific ramifications of the idea of creating life, then the question serves no purpose. |
Why? It seems like a perfectly well-formulated question to me.
IF humans eventually figure out how to take atoms and organize them into living things, then do we have a moral right to kill those living things?
I really don't see any hidden premises here...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| P123 wrote: |
IF humans eventually figure out how to take atoms and organize them into living things, then do we have a moral right to kill those living things? |
Not unless you have the power to give it back again.
In other words, if you give life and call that person Zeno3, then take Zeno3's life, can you then restore that specific life (Zeno3) once again?
_________________
Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7563
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | P123 wrote: |
IF humans eventually figure out how to take atoms and organize them into living things, then do we have a moral right to kill those living things? |
Not unless you have the power to give it back again.
In other words, if you give life and call that person Zeno3, then take Zeno3's life, can you then restore that specific life (Zeno3) once again? |
So with respect to God killing the innocent babies and children in Egypt, it was ok because He could give their lives back again?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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