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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8207
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| justjazz wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | It's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that it doesn't help them in any practical way. They can't use it to build a longer-lasting light bulb; they can't use it to cure any diseases; they can't use it to put humans on the surface of a different planet.
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However, if enough people embraced a particular peaceful philosophy, that may help mankind and further the efforts for a non-violent and just society. That would fall into the category of practical I think. |
I agree, but never before in the history of mankind has anything like this happened, and there is no reason to believe that a peaceful philosophy could ever get a critical mass of people on board in order to *really* change society.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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justjazz
Sea Monkey
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | justjazz wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | It's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that it doesn't help them in any practical way. They can't use it to build a longer-lasting light bulb; they can't use it to cure any diseases; they can't use it to put humans on the surface of a different planet.
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However, if enough people embraced a particular peaceful philosophy, that may help mankind and further the efforts for a non-violent and just society. That would fall into the category of practical I think. |
I agree, but never before in the history of mankind has anything like this happened, and there is no reason to believe that a peaceful philosophy could ever get a critical mass of people on board in order to *really* change society. |
I think western society is at least making the attempt and getting nearer than we've probably ever been. At least I'm not giving up, and if I can make a positive impact on one or two people, and they do the same, then we've perhaps brought us all a little closer. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8207
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| justjazz wrote: |
I think western society is at least making the attempt and getting nearer than we've probably ever been. At least I'm not giving up, and if I can make a positive impact on one or two people, and they do the same, then we've perhaps brought us all a little closer. |
That's a good attitude, and I hope you are very successful!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | P123 wrote: | | People stopped using philosophy to help them understand the world hundreds of years ago at which point it became painfully obvious that using science was MUCH more useful. |
You're kidding, right? |
I think I understand what P# is saying here. I do not agree with it, but the claim being made is less radical than it looks. If you substitute "metaphysical speculation" for "philosophy" then P#'s statements here become an affirmation of a common scientific viewpoint, namely positivism.
However, philosophy as a whole is much too broad to be set up in a false dichotomy with science. There is for example, the philosophy of quantum mechanics. Part of that is metaphysics certainly, but other parts lead to genuine experiments about the nature of locality in quantum mechanics, for example.
_________________
One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | That reminds me... philosophy is also a prominent part of mathematics. Philosophy deals with ideals and so can conceive of perfect logic, which is central to mathematics. |
Well said.
_________________
One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I also think that studying math is in some ways a 'spiritual' experience. Many mathematicians over the centuries have commented on how mathematics deals with things which are perfect, and through studying it you get to know the mind of God, etc., etc. |
Quite right. Take it for what it is worth. It is hard to spend time with Cantor's transfinite arithmetics without occasionally thinking of God. 
_________________
One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| justjazz wrote: | | However, if enough people embraced a particular peaceful philosophy, that may help mankind and further the efforts for a non-violent and just society. That would fall into the category of practical I think. |
I'm all for that.
_________________
One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8207
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: |
However, philosophy as a whole is much too broad to be set up in a false dichotomy with science. There is for example, the philosophy of quantum mechanics. Part of that is metaphysics certainly, but other parts lead to genuine experiments about the nature of locality in quantum mechanics, for example. |
I'm not even trying to set up a dichotomy or criticize philosophy here. Some areas of philosophy are worthy of study and are even useful. I'm only trying to point out that science has given us far more concrete results than philosophy ever has.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Plotinus
Big Lion
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | I'm not even trying to set up a dichotomy or criticize philosophy here. Some areas of philosophy are worthy of study and are even useful. I'm only trying to point out that science has given us far more concrete results than philosophy ever has.
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I agree. 
_________________
One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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