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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | Atheists lack belief in God because they see no evidence for Him.
A god that was unaware of those who did not believe in him wouldn't be much of a god at all. |
Heb11:1:"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Chritians don`t have Much more than faith for evidence.
You need belief to have evidence not evidence to belief.
Prys die Heer! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6776
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
Chritians don`t have Much more than faith for evidence.
You need belief to have evidence not evidence to belief.
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You've got it *EXACTLY* backwards!
Belief without scientific evidence might be right or it might be wrong. Belief WITH scientific evidence has a MUCH higher chance of being right! |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
......
Belief without scientific evidence might be right or it might be wrong.
Belief WITH scientific evidence has a MUCH higher chance of being right! |
"Human beings [think they] must be known to be loved;
but
Divine beings [which all beings are] must be loved to be known [or believed].”
Blaise Pascal
With Belief in Love and Love in belief,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5899
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah that's pretty much nonsense |
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christina
Cobra
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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"God doesn't believe in atheists,
therefore atheists don't exist,"
I dont believe this is a true statement.
Where does it say in the bible God doesn't "believe" in them, or that they dont exist? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6776
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| christina wrote: |
I dont believe this is a true statement.
Where does it say in the bible God doesn't "believe" in them, or that they dont exist? |
I wish it *did* say that in the Bible, because that would be one more statement in the Bible which is objectively false, since we know that atheists do exist. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| christina wrote: | "God doesn't believe in atheists,
therefore atheists don't exist,"
I dont believe this is a true statement.
Where does it say in the bible God doesn't "believe" in them, or that they dont exist? |
Hi Christina,
Thanx for your comment and question.
I know that that is not a true statement too!smile
BUT IF someone or anyone THINKS that
'Atheists don't believe in God, therefore God does not exist,'
IS a true statement,
THEN TO THEM,
it must also be a true statement TO THEM that
'God does not believe in atheists, therefore atheists do not exist!'
See?
BUT since that is an obviously FALSE conclusion, - --atheists DO exist----
then the other one about 'God not existing because atheists don't think he exists,'
MUST also be a false statement--therefore God DOES exist!
Ok?
"Here is my opening post on it:
Is the statement that
"God doesn't believe in atheists,
therefore atheists don't exist,"
an equivalent of the opposite statement:
"Atheists do not believe in God,
therefore God doesn't exist."? smile
with Love and Respect for who exists and who doesn't exist,
atoz"
Please make more comments and/or ask more questions.
with Love and Respect,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | christina wrote: |
I dont believe this is a true statement.
Where does it say in the bible God doesn't "believe" in them, or that they dont exist? |
I wish it *did* say that in the Bible, because that would be one more statement in the Bible which is objectively false, since we know that atheists do exist. |
Christina,
Do you see what I mean from the above comment by P123?smile
From P123's own Premise, aka POP,
logical premise, LP, smile
we can all logically conclude that,
not only since atheists DO exist,
then God does exist!,
but also,
since God exists,
atheists had to exist,
and,
sure enough,
they do!
The glad-sad thing for me about all this?
This is wish that P123 made come true and thru,--glad,
but a wish he does not love--- sad,
which makes it a fear come thru & true---
the very thing he feared happening to him by his own premise---
by his own premise, he brings about the very fear he did NOT want nor wish to happen!
sigh
sad
Job 3:
25For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me,
and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
How come this happens?
1 John 4:
18There is no fear in love;
but perfect love casteth out fear:
because fear hath torment.
He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Sonnet 119
Shakespeare
Applying fears to hopes and hopes to fears,
Still losing when I saw myself to win!
In Love for myself as all dreamers who are wishful thinkers in Love of wishes come true & thru AND of wishes that don't come thru nor true,smile
and
in Love of myself as all wishful thinkers who are dreamers in Hate of what wishes do or don't come true or thru,
atoz |
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 843
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Yeah that's pretty much nonsense |
Well perhaps this is also:
"For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either. The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret. He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed."
What do you think? If we accept that Pascal was one of the cleverest thinkers in mathematics and science of his day, perhaps his religious writings -- true or false, you be the judge -- should not be dismissed as nonsense. Forget the metaphysical questions about God's existence. Pascal's religious writings speak to the human condition of ignorance. The atheist -- who rejects the conclusions of faith -- should still be interested in the root causes of faith. About this Pascal had much to say. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6776
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: |
BUT IF someone or anyone THINKS that
'Atheists don't believe in God, therefore God does not exist,'
IS a true statement,
THEN TO THEM,
it must also be a true statement TO THEM that
'God does not believe in atheists, therefore atheists do not exist!' |
Actually, the argument that "God does not believe in atheists, and therefore God does not exist." would be a much more reasonable statement. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Plotinus wrote: |
....
"For after all what is man in nature?
A nothing in relation to infinity,
all in relation to nothing,
a central point between nothing,
and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
The ends of things and their beginnings
are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret.
He is equally incapable of seeing
the nothingness out of which he was drawn
and
the infinite in which he is engulfed."
.... |
Simply awesome!
Indescribable! [Even tho I just described it!smile]
Plo!
I, with the powers duly authorized and invested in me,
hereby confer upon you, henceforth also known as and by the prefix 'Sir,'
the honorary title of Chief Scientist,
but which in reality you are, Sir!smile
With the true Science of True Love that considers all the evidence and allows all interps of said evidence as valid,
atoz, the twerp, smile |
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