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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | I didn't realize that that was a problem here. The Bible clearly shows, Jesus is God. |
You might want to inform a number of believers who hang out on the Bible Debate forum of this. (Texas, trettep, Wilbur(?), maybe Di?)
They're there.
Yehushuan
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | The 10 commandments are clearly Christ's ( as God), which He wrote Himself, on Mt. Sinai. |
Not according to Marcion. 
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Yehu what I am Trying to say is that it is possible not to sin. Not that it is impossible to sin.
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I agree that all power comes from God.
Col1:17:"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist"
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Prys die Heer! |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: | | Yehu what I am Trying to say is that it is possible not to sin. Not that it is impossible to sin. |
Well that might be your idea, but this is what is written:
1Jn 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Yehu
(Just going by what is actually written.)
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Wrong again.....Jesus Christ did it.....Abraham did it.....Moses did it.....Job did it.....ect....ect....ect. |
My brother in Christ,
I've been meaning to bring this subject up to you, and here you've brought up the subject.
Abraham perfectly obeyed the commandments? Moses perfectly obeyed them?
Moses took another man's life. His reason may have been just but it was murder all the same. He also disobeyed a direct command of God in a fit of anger.
Abraham told a lie. He told a king that Sarah his wife was his sister. Furthermore, he was willing to let this other man take Sarah as his wife, which would make him responsible for causing his wife to become an adulteress.
Yet scripture testifies that Abraham was perfect before God and that he walked in all God's commandments. And the writer of Hebrews wrote that Moses was faithful in all God's house.
Brother Surfer, you had better reexamine your definition of walking in obedience to the commandments of God. I would suggest reading Hebrews 11 to find the reason Abraham was perfect before God. From there, think about what God really looks at when finding whether a man is obedient or not. Moses and Abraham had character flaws just like the rest of us, and scripture documents them. They straight out broke commandments. Yet God testified that they were perfect before Him.
You also mention Job. God testified that Job was righteous and perfect. Yet God found fault with him on one occasion, and rebuked him sharply. What did Job do wrong?
Do you really think it was obeying all the 10 commandments, especially going to church on Saturday, that made these men perfect before God? What does scripture really indicate made them perfect before God?
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Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | PrysdieHeer! wrote: | | Yehu what I am Trying to say is that it is possible not to sin. Not that it is impossible to sin. |
Well that might be your idea, but this is what is written:
1Jn 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Yehu
(Just going by what is actually written.) |
Yes
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But to those born of God, for those not born of God it is Not impossible to sin, until they are born again.
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From this passage one might think that there is no sin since it is impossible to sin. But it is possible to sin, since not all are born of God.
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I also did not say that it is not impossible to sin.
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Prys die Heer! |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | Moses took another man's life. His reason may have been just but it was murder all the same. He also disobeyed a direct command of God in a fit of anger. |
...and perhaps most significantly, though Moses had killed an Egyptian in his outrage at the oppression of his fellow Israelite, the scripture says that God spoke with him face to face!
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yehu wrote:
Sorry to have to correct you Yehu....but Di does believe that Jesus is God. I also believe in the Trinity. Does that shock you, brother?
I think you make incorrect assumptions about me and others, brother. Please ask me before you post incorrect assumptions about me in the future. Thank you.
Love, Di
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God is love and love never fails.
The Beautiful Heresy – If believing that God is loving enough, powerful enough, and wise enough to save all of His creation makes me a heretic, sign me up. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Diane wrote: | | I think you make incorrect assumptions about me and others, brother. Please ask me before you post incorrect assumptions about me in the future. Thank you. |
Sure, but an assumption would not have had the question mark. I was just wondering out loud. No disrespect intended.
Sorry my scorecard is incomplete. So hard to keep track. I had actually pegged you as Christadelphian, but I make no claims of inerrancy (eh.. 100% inerrancey).
Yehu
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | ...and perhaps most significantly, though Moses had killed an Egyptian in his outrage at the oppression of his fellow Israelite, the scripture says that God spoke with him face to face! |
Can you see some who wouldn't consider that killing as murder?
Yehu
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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yehu wrote:
| Quote: | | No disrespect intended. |
And none taken.
Yehu wrote:
| Quote: | | Sorry my scorecard is incomplete. So hard to keep track. I had actually pegged you as Christadelphian, but I make no claims of inerrancy (eh.. 100% inerrancey). |
No problem here either.
Dear Yehu,
However, I would like to be pegged as a born-again, washed in the blood of Jesus Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit believer. My denomination is superfluous to any discussions that I may have in these forums.
Thanks a bunch. 
Di
_________________
God is love and love never fails.
The Beautiful Heresy – If believing that God is loving enough, powerful enough, and wise enough to save all of His creation makes me a heretic, sign me up. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Not a problem Di, I am quite aware that someone may attend a particular church and yet have heated points of disagreement with their official doctrine.
That’s sort of how new denominations split off all the time.
Such “pegging” to any denomination is just common shorthand. It takes a lot of work to fill out a doctrinal chart for each and every person one may encounter. That’s why stereotypes are so useful. They save massive amounts of thinking, and usually get good “rule of thumb” results. (As long as one is aware of “exceptions to the rule.”)
Yehu
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3002
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: |
Do you really think it was obeying all the 10 commandments, especially going to church on Saturday, that made these men perfect before God? |
What made them perfect was their love for God, which resulted in doing whatever God wanted them to do.
Love, is the motivating factor for keeping all the commandments, including the 7th day sabbath.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
| Quote: | | What does scripture really indicate made them perfect before God? |
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Love, is the motivating factor for keeping all the commandments, including the 7th day sabbath. |
And do you include circumcision in that list of commandments?
Yehu
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | Can you see some who wouldn't consider that killing as murder? |
Sure.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Quote: | | What does scripture really indicate made them perfect before God? |
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. |
Brother Surfer,
this isn't any kind of answer. This is another passage telling us that God has those who are without blame before Him. I asked on what basis are they without blame. Unless you're trying to say they are without blame just because they are 7th Day Adventists? 
I have shown that the men of faith of the old testament were perfect before God, and were recorded as having kept all His commandments, though they had failures in honesty, integrity and obedience.
I think this indicates that you need to reexamine the definition of the keeping of the commandments of God. And consider what John really meant when he wrote of those who kept the commandments of God in Revelation 14 and 22, in the verses you like to quote to us.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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