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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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Dear JimD,
| JimD wrote: | | Satan is the accuser, and who is the greatest accuser we know? Our very own conscience, and if we believe our conscience and doubt God, sin will eat us alive. As in God told Cain, sin is crouching at your door, and desires to have you, but you must master it, (by believing that God has mastered it for you) by faith in Him. |
Your depiction of our conscience being the Great Accuser and Adversary to God and Man does not seem to be in accord with the Scriptures. For example, it was their conscience that prevented them from stoning the woman caught in adultery:
So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing before him. John 8:7-9
The Apostle Paul said several positive things about the conscience including the fact that he took what his said seriously:
And in this do I exercise (train) myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16
For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another Romans 2:14-15
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, Romans 9:1
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and more abundantly toward you. 2 Corinthians 1:12
Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:5
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1 Timothy 3:9
For this is commendable, if a man for conscience toward God endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when you be buffeted for your faults, you shall take it patiently? but if, when you do well, and suffer for it, you take it patiently, this is commendable with God. 1 Peter 2:19-20
We are not only to regard our own conscience but also that of others:
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours becomes a stumbling block to them that are weak. For if any man sees you who have knowledge eating in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him who is weak be encouraged to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother to stumble, I will eat no meat while the world stands, lest I make my brother to stumble. 1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience’s sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof: Conscience, I say, not your own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 1 Corinthians 10:28-29
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending (to place together, to set in the same place,to bring or band together) ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 4:2
Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
2 Corinthians 5:11
The Scriptures indicate that to disregard our conscience has disastrous consequences:
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them who believe and know the truth. 1 Timothy 4:1-3
The Bible Dictionaries give interesting explanations as to what having ones conscience seared with a hot iron means:
Strongs = From a derivative of G2545; to brand (“cauterize”), that is, (by implication) to render unsensitive (figuratively): - sear with a hot iron.
Word Study = kautēriázō; fut. kautēriásō, from kautḗrion (n.f.), a red-hot iron, which is from kaíō (G2545), to burn. To cauterize, brand with a hot iron; used in the pass. in 1Ti_4:2, meaning branded or having the marks of their guilt burnt in upon their own consciences, making them seared or hardened in their consciences.
I did a google search on the word cauterize and found this:
| wikipedia wrote: | ETYMOLOGY
The verb to cauterize; known in English since 1541; from Medieval French cauteriser; from Late Latin cauterizare "to burn or brand with a hot iron"; itself from Greek kauteriazein; from kauter "burning or branding iron"; from kaiein "to burn."
HISTORY
Cauterization was used to stop heavy bleeding, especially during amputations. The procedure was simple: a piece of metal was heated over fire and applied to the wound. This would cause tissues and blood to heat rapidly to extreme temperatures in turn causing coagulation of the blood thus controlling the bleeding, at the cost of extensive tissue damage. |
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made it shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 1 Timothy 1:19-20
This verse seems to be speaking of some people putting away a good conscience believing faith to be all one needs. This seems to be supported by the next verse that speaks of 2 men blaspheming. I don't think a believer could blaspheme and keep a good conscience unless they were convinced that they didn't need to regard it in the first place. Which is what these two men seem to have done, shipwrecking their faith.
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving(faithless) is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny (contradict) him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate (not standing the test; not approved). Titus 1:15-16
Scripture indicates that our conscience needs to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus and cleansed from dead works to function properly:
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having a high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10:19-22
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:14
With Love
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2
Last edited by bitterlily on Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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| I certainly do not know the answer to all your questions but i can tell you guys have the spirit that will allow God to answer them. JimD |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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| As you pointed out, our conscience can be accusing (Rom.2:15) if controlled by doubt & unbelief (Flesh, Satan) or excusing, if sprinkled by the blood of Jesus (belief) and cleansed from dead works (trying to save ourselves by keeping the law). JimD |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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Hi JimD,
| JimD wrote: | | As you pointed out, our conscience can be accusing (Rom.2:15) if controlled by doubt & unbelief (Flesh, Satan) or excusing, if sprinkled by the blood of Jesus (belief) and cleansed from dead works (trying to save ourselves by keeping the law). JimD |
I think I understand what you are trying to say here but it seems to be at the expense of our conscience. The part of your comment that troubles me is this:
| Quote: | | our conscience can be accusing if controlled by doubt & unbelief |
This is not right both scripturally or experientially. Our conscience plays a vital role in our faith and just because it accuses us does not mean that we are controlled by doubt and unbelief. On the contrary, it can be a lamp to our feet if we will heed it's voice.
This happened for me a couple of weeks ago when I felt deeply offended by a man who publicly humiliated me. What particularly upset me about this was that it was Christmas night, the day had been peacefully beautiful, I was minding my own business when this man decided to make me the center of his critical discussion. I sat there totally embarrased with a knot in my stomach for about 20 minutes just fuming. Sin was most definitely crouching at my door and it's desire was to have me. But thankfully my conscience kicked in and said, "What are you thinking?  You are going to get swallowed up by your anger? Stop it! Don't let it do this to you!" That very moment I came to my senses and I got up and walked away, locking myself in the bathroom until I caught my breath. I didn't ignore my conscience and say, "Your wrong! I'm a Christian, sin has no power over me!" Because the truth was I was letting sin overcome me by thinking and plotting evil in my heart,  and had my conscience not interrupted me I would have exploded  . While in the bathroom I cried out to the Lord, confessing the sin in my heart telling Him that I did not want to be swallowed up by it but that I needed His help to overcome it. I was amazed at how much better I felt as I walked out the bathroom door and it put a smile on my face as I gave thanks to the Lord for giving me inner peace. Honestly, it was like the Lord erased the pain from my heart and made me temporarily forgetful. Because, by the end of the night I found myself witnessing to the person and those that sat around about how Jesus had helped me, after the same man instigated a conversation about demonic possession (of all things) saying that he believed in it because he had witnessed it happen to his sister. I had no intention or thought to witness about Jesus to anyone that day. It was the strange looks and comments from those who heard this man's admission that motivated me to stand beside him by making a similar admission. Except my admission was a little different and you should of seen the looks on everyones faces when I said, "I believe in it too because it happened to me!" It stirred everyones curiosity and they wanted to know so I told them. Full Stop! And believe it or not, it was my conscience that told me that it would be dishonest to leave Jesus out of the story. So I told them, "I called out to Jesus and he healed me!"
It was all quite surreal! 
The amazing thing was that none of them were Christians yet they all spent over an hour sharing all of their personal and family experiences and asking me for advice on what they should do. And my response was always the same, "Call out to Jesus, ask Jesus and He will help you!" One of the man's children overheard part of the conversation when we were talking about nightmares and he confessed that he suffered from nightmares regularly yet this was the first time that his parents were hearing about it. I told him how I and my children had struggled with nightmares as well but we had all learnt that Jesus would save us from them if we asked him to and I encouraged him to talk to my children. We all parted ways giving each other big hugs of gratitude.
The reality is that if I had ignored my conscience that day it's outcome would have been disastrously different.
I don't think the problem is that our Conscience accuses us. I think the real problem is how we respond to our Conscience. I am convinced that one of it's job's is to convict us of sin as I showed previously in this Scripture:
So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing before him. John 8:7-9
When our conscience convicts us of sin we are told:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
So the cleansing from all unrighteousness only happens when we confess our sins past, present and future. But it takes faith to believe that God will cleanse us for confessing the sins which our conscience convicts us of:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in foods and drinks, and various washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:9-10
And having a high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hebrews 10:21-24
If you examine it closely, you will see that all these verses were fulfilled in the story shared above.
Lots of Love
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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Hi biterlilly
you wrote:
| Quote: | | On the contrary, it can be a lamp to our feet if we will heed it's voice. |
What i am referring to is when we do not let our conscience be a lamp to our feet, but let doubt and unbelief take over our conscience, mind and heart.
I think you know what i am getting at, or did i misunderstand your previous post?
I think the spirit of satan comes from within if we allow it.
Where do you think the spirit of satan comes from?
Please do not quote: "he roams to and fro seeking whom he may devour" unless you tell me what you think it means.
Do you think satan is a spirit that comes at us from the outside (except maybe in the form of other people) or from within? Sincerely, JimD |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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| OOPS: I went back and studied trettep and bitterlily post more closely and i think trettrep is the one i am trying to identify with, oh well it really does not matter. |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: spirit of satan |
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bitterlilywrote:
| Quote: | | The Law of God was transgressed when Adam yielded himself to serve the will of the Serpent, thus giving the Beasts dominion over Man rather than Man over Beast as God commanded. Jesus came to take the Dominion back from the Beasts of the Earth and restore it to Man: |
The only beast that Adam yielded to was the beast of his own self, lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life.Ge 3:6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Jesus came to take the dominion back from that beast. JimD |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: spirit of satan |
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trettep wrote:
| Quote: |
See Bitterlily, I believe when you see the references to Demons or Satan your seeing references to those things that are of fleshy man who was made of the earth.
AMEN, trettep!
Again, I'm still studying all this but the more I read the more I'm becoming convinced of it much like when I studied universalism at first there were so many verses that seemed to refute universalism but once real inspection was made I found universalism to be the more legit doctrine. |
Would you explain how you came to believe in the doctrine of universalism. JImD |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Spirit of satan |
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| JimD wrote: | Where do you think the spirit of satan comes from?
Please do not quote: "he roams to and fro seeking whom he may devour" unless you tell me what you think it means.
Do you think satan is a spirit that comes at us from the outside (except maybe in the form of other people) or from within? Sincerely, JimD |
Hi JimD,
Okay I'll be really honest with you as to why I believe Satan roams around outside of us seeking someone he can devour. But please understand that this isn't easy for me to share, so please be gentle with it. Here is a quote from my testimony that I wrote a year ago:
| Quote: | The following is an account of one of my attacks that my mum shared with me when I was about 22 years old, after I had asked her whether she could tell from looking at me how terrified I felt during the attacks (she actually reenacted it for me):
She recalled that her and Dad were sitting watching T.V. My siblings and I had not long gone to bed when suddenly the hall door flung open as I came through it. All my limbs were twisted, my jaw was out of joint, my face was blue and I was frothing at the mouth. As I fought to walk to my Mum in this crippled state, eyes wide with terror, I managed to force out a sound “Muuuummm!” Mum came running to catch me as I collapsed on the ground and fell unconscious while Dad ran straight out the door and returned with some Christian Elders from our Marae who had come to pray for me.
I only ever experienced the seizures during sleep, but would awaken to the sensation of tingling and numbness in my face and mouth. This would become the signal to me, that I had a few seconds to get up and run to Mum before paralysis would overtake my whole body, until finally I fell unconscious......................
Over the years Mum had been checking in with the medical experts to see if they had found an explanation for my condition, but an experience that she had when I was a child always sat in the back of her mind, causing her to suspect that my healing would only come by spiritual means. This is the experience that she had:
Having just come out of a very severe seizure, I was groaning and crying in distress. My mum stroked my hair as I lay in her arms and to calm her nerves she begun to sing this song:
In the Name of Jesus, In the Name of Jesus, We have the Victory!
In the Name of Jesus, In the Name of Jesus, Demons will have to flee!
Now what I am about to share in regards to this story may cause some to conclude that it is a totally false and ridiculous story, but anyone who knows my Mum should not have any problem accepting this as a true account of actual events as told by her, and anyone is welcome to ask her about this story if they want to.
…As she came to the last part of this song she said that she heard an enormous thump, like something hitting the ceiling of our house. In her words, “It was like a huge hand punching the ceiling!” It absolutely terrified her, and when she recalled the words of the song she equated this extraordinary event to the words “Demons will have to flee!” |
My mum said that from that day on when I would have an attack, she would tell me, “Just call out to Jesus, Bitterlily, call out to Jesus.” But what she didn't know until many years later is that I couldn't hear her. My hearing, speech and eyesight were impaired during the attacks.
We were a devoted Catholic Family at the time but this experience caused my mum to take me to every Christian faith-healing movement in the district but they were unable to help me. A few years after the attacks had stopped Derek Prince came to town and my mum asked me to go but I declined because my attacks had already stopped after I had screamed at God to stop doing this to me. As far as I was concerned God had already healed me. A couple of years later the attacks started again but in a form that prevented me from being able to run to anyone. And because God had taken them away when I had asked Him to I was left to conclude that He had allowed me to be exposed to them again, I just didn't understand why. Eventually I divinely heard the Word of Jesus (Not the written Word but the Living Word; the Voice of the Lord) and I called out to Him to save me and He saved me that very hour.
My mother and I have both come to see the blessing in my attacks. It encouraged us both to seek the Lord Jesus' face and stop depending on an intermediary to seek Him on our behalf. And because we have seeked Him ourselves with all our Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength we have both been greatly blessed. As it is written:
...without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
Teach me your way, O LORD, and lead me in a level path, because of my enemies. Deliver me not over unto the will of my enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty. I would have fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart: wait, I say, on the LORD. Psalms 27:11-14
For some people, the promise by Christians of Heaven at a later date is not enough. They need deliverance now in the land of the living and I thank God that He still provides it in the Face of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I am now convinced that nothing can separate me from the Love of Christ Jesus:
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For your sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39
Yours sincerely with Love
Bitterlily
P.S. I believe in Universal Salvation aswell but the Lord Jesus tells us that the road will be Narrow (thlibō). You might like to check out these following verses to get a more detailed perspective of what this word means:
| KJV Concordance wrote: | G2346
θλίβω
thlibō
Total KJV Occurrences: 10
afflicted = 2Co 1:6, 1Ti 5:10, Heb 11:37
troubled = 2Co 4:8, 2Co 7:5, 2Th 1:7
narrow = Mat 7:14
throng = Mar 3:9
tribulation = 1Th 3:4
trouble = 2Th 1:6 |
I had yearned to walk with the Lord from a child, I just had no idea it was going to be such a troubled walk. Had I known I would not have fretted so much when I was being attacked by my enemies who would tell me that God had forsaken me. Thanks to the Scriptures I now know that He never did.
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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| JimD wrote: | | The only beast that Adam yielded to was the beast of his own self, lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life.Ge 3:6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Jesus came to take the dominion back from that beast. JimD |
Hello again JimD,
I have entertained this very possibility that you present here but found that it denies the truth of so many other verses like this one:
Since then the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime in danger of bondage(slavery). Hebrews 2:14-15
Also, Jesus gave power to his disciples over ALL the enemy telling them to "cast out Devils". If devils are the lust of the flesh than this means that Jesus' Disciples have the power to cast them out of others. So why aren't they? If this theory is true and Christians were given power over all the enemy than whose fault is it that the Devil still has dominion over many in the world? It just doesn't add up.
With Love
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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bitterlily, i have great respect for personal experiences but realize as you do that they are not the basis of how we interpret Gods word.
In thinking about the spirit of satan being the spirit of man in the flesh i was looking in revelation at the word beast where it seems to be referring to man in the flesh (receiving its mark on his head and hands, which i take to mean what they think (head) and what they do (hands), look at Rev. 13:3, 4, 8, 14:9, 11, 15:2, 20:4, 10.
It also entered my mind about the mark of Cain, (mark of the beast?) (man in the flesh?) just thinking out loud.
JimD |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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| JimD wrote: | | bitterlily, i have great respect for personal experiences but realize as you do that they are not the basis of how we interpret Gods word. |
As I understand it, we are to interpret Scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit and must be careful that we are not interpreting it with man's wisdom. The difficult thing I think we all struggle with is discerning the difference, but I trust the Lord will help us find our way. 
| JimD wrote: | | In thinking about the spirit of satan being the spirit of man in the flesh i was looking in revelation at the word beast where it seems to be referring to man in the flesh (receiving its mark on his head and hands, which i take to mean what they think (head) and what they do (hands), look at Rev. 13:3, 4, 8, 14:9, 11, 15:2, 20:4, 10. |
Now I'm with you on this one despite our differences. I do believe that when Scripture speaks of Beasts (especially in Revelations) it is referring to Man. Something to keep in mind though is that the Lord also appears as an animal (lamb) right through Revelations. Here are just a few verses:
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Revelation 5:6
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of saints. Revelation 5:8
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.
Revelation 5:12
For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Revelation 7:17
The rest can be found in Rev 5:6, 5:8, 5:12-13, 6:1, 6:16, 7:9-10, 7:14, 7:17, 12:11, 13:8, , 14:1, 14:4 (2), 14:10, 15:3, 17:14, 19:7, 19:9, 21:14, 21:22-23, 22:1, 22:3.
Take note that the Beast you quoted in Rev 13:3 is the same Beast in Rev 17:11-14 that makes war with the Lamb:
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. And the ten horns which you saw (on the head of the beast) are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Revelation 17:11-14
I think we need to keep in mind that according to the Law (which is Spiritual Rom 7:14) there were Clean and Unclean Animals (Lev 11)
We are all told to eat the flesh of the Passover Lamb otherwise we have no life in us:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live by me. John 6:53-57
I am very thankful for all your exchanges with me JimD because they are helping to bring things to my attention that I didn't notice before and I am learning alot. To be perfectly honest, I would not have learnt all I have about the conscience had you not stirred me to check the Scriptures. It has helped me to see the areas in my life that I was ignoring and resisting my conscience. I feel really quite positive about the year ahead since learning all I have in this Study. The ironic thing is that I would never have imagined that a study about the nature of Satan could be so beneficial to my walk with our Lord.
I have to go out for a while but I look forward to when I can come back and carry on with our Study. I appreciate it alot.
Kind Regards
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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JimD
Bear Cub
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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bitterlily, glad you enjoy, me to.
One would expect to find a great difference in the meaning of lamb and beast, right.
What do you think about the mark of Cain being the mark of the beast, mark of the flesh, mark of satan, mark of a vengeful spirit ?
What subject would you like to study?
JimD |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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| JimD wrote: | | bitterlily, glad you enjoy, me to. |
Glad to hear it!
| JimD wrote: | | What subject would you like to study? |
I'd like to start with this one first:
| JimD wrote: | | One would expect to find a great difference in the meaning of lamb and beast, right. |
Most definitely! What I wanted to highlight is that it is not a bad thing to be called an animal, and that what matters is what kind of animal we are. Animals seem to be a description of our Old Man. Jesus' Old Man was described as a Lamb:
The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: Acts 8:32
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:19
Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin; Romans 6:6
Amongst Jesus flock are Lambs and Sheep:
So when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, do you love me more than these? He said unto him, Yea, Lord; you know that I love you. He said unto him, Feed my lambs. He said to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, do you love me? He said unto him, Yea, Lord; you know that I love you. He said unto him, Feed my sheep. John 21:15-16
The greek word for the bad Beasts in Revelations is Therion which means:
| Strong's wrote: | | Diminutive from the same as G2339; a dangerous animal: - (venomous, wild) beast. |
Note that it is a different greek word to the one used for the four living creatures and those sacrificed according to the Law:
| WordStudy wrote: | | In the Septuagint (Greek OT) where sacrifices of beasts are mentioned, they are never mentioned as thēría, but as zṓa, because the wild and bestial element is brought out in thēríon. Throughout the NT, however, both zṓon and thēríon are rendered by the word "beast." Yet the animals represented by these two words are far removed from one another. The zṓa or "living creatures" stand before the throne and in them dwells the fullness of all creaturely life as it gives praise and glory to God (Rev_4:6-9; Rev_5:6; Rev_6:1). They constitute a part of the heavenly symbolism. The thēría, the first and second beasts which rise up, one from the bottomless pit (Rev_11:7) and the other from the sea (Rev_13:1) with one making war upon the two witnesses and the other opening his mouth in blasphemies, form part of the hellish symbolism. Therefore, thēríon is predominately used of lower animal life and can never be the name applied to glorious creatures in the very court and presence of heaven. Consequently, in Scripture, zṓa should always be rendered as "living creatures" and thēría as "beasts." |
Remember also that we are told:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:1
Present your bodies as a living sacrifice...
Based on the information above God will not be accepting any therion (dangerous and venomous beasts) on His altar as a burnt (ascending) offering.
I think this is a good lead up to the subject of the mark of the beast (therion) which I will have a look at next.
Lots of Love
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: Re: spirit of satan |
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| JimD wrote: | What do you think about the mark of Cain being the mark of the beast, mark of the flesh, mark of satan, mark of a vengeful spirit ?
JimD |
Hi JimD,
When you are referring to the Mark of Cain am I right in presuming you are talking about the Mark that the Lord put on Cain in this verse?:
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:15
This Mark on Cain seems to be different to the Mark of the Beast for several reasons. Firstly, because the Mark of the Beast is imposed by the 2-horned Lamb that speaks like a Dragon (Rev 13:11-16) and not the Lord. Secondly, the word translated Mark on Cain is actually a SIGN or TOKEN ('ôth) as in these verses:
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS ('ôth), and for seasons, and for days, and years: Genesis 1:14
And God said, This is the TOKEN ('ôth) of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a TOKEN ('ôth) of a covenant between me and the earth. Genesis 9:12-13
And the blood shall be to you for a TOKEN ('ôth) upon the houses where you are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. Exodus 12:13
So it seems from these verses that the Mark on Cain was a SIGN OR TOKEN of the Covenant the Lord made with Cain that if he was killed by anyone vengeance would be taken on them sevenfold.
However, I do see the parrallel between Cain offering the Fruit of the Ground to God and the offering of the Works of our Flesh; both being rejected. I also see the parrallel between Abel offering a firstling of his flock to God and our offering of the Lamb called Jesus to God.
So it seems that Cain and Abel are just another example of this verse:
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Galatians 4:29
Let us not forget though:
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Romans 11:28
Just like the Jews who offered the fruit of their ground are enemies for our sake but concerning the election are beloved for the fathers' sakes, I have no problem in believing the same is true of Cain too. How bout you?
With Love
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38
As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2 |
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