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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Thaddaeus wrote: | Wilber,
| Quote: | People are desperate to lean on anyone or anything rather than the Living Word.
Who do we trust in these matters? No-one. Not even ourselves. Especially not ourselves. |
I perceive just the opposite. They mistrust everything and anything, including the Authority of the Holy Spirit and rely ONLY upon themselves. Those that use the Scripture as their sole rule of faith are not using scripture as the authority, but themselves. I see only two sources of auithority. It is either Christ, (the Holy Spirit) or the reader, the person who makes the interpretation. Scripture as a book, as a printed page does not have authority.
If it actually had that power, then you would not have the myriad number of interpretations that come forth from this method.
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I agree. When I said the "Living Word" that is Jesus - the Logos.
The written word is not. It is 'the scriptures' - graphe.
Yours in Christ
wilber |
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Thaddaeus
Tadpole
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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wilber,
| Quote: | I agree. When I said the "Living Word" that is Jesus - the Logos.
The written word is not. It is 'the scriptures' - graphe. |
But that does not clarify the understanding that most who use the Scripture, the written portion of the Gospel, as given by that Holy Spirit, come up with a myriad of interpretations. My point is that it is obvious it is not the Holy Spirit. If so, then the Holy Spirit does not know the Truth nor understand what was once given as that Truth.
So, we are back to the original statement. Do we believe what the Holy Spirit gave and has preserved or what human beings have individually interpreted it to mean? Who has the authority, Christ, the Holy Spirit or man? |
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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi Thad, I'm trying to be helpful but I may not be, here goes.
You wrote: | Quote: | | But that does not clarify the understanding that most who use the Scripture.......come up with a myriad of interpretations. My point is that it is obvious it is not the Holy Spirit. |
I agree. If we say that the bible is infallible this does not get us too far because, as you imply, when anyone reads the bible he must interpret it and we each interpret it differently. If we rely on those two in the title then all we get is their interpretation.
I posted somewhere else about my friend Fred.
Fred says "The bible is the FINAL authority" (BTW I don't see that in the anywhere in the bible)
Who made that declaration?
Fred.
So who is the FINAL authority?
Fred.
Susan says "The Holy Spirit within me tells me that the Bible is reliable and helps me to interpret it."
Who made that declaration?
Well Susan did but she claims SHE was told it by the Holy Spirit.
So, in this second example there is the possibility of truth.
Should I trust Susan? No. Many people claim the Holy Spirit's guidance and come to different interpretations - so where does this leave me?
I should seek FOR MYSELF to be in Susan's position.
The Holy Spirit will guide us into truth to the extent that we are sincerely open to His guidance and do not come with preconceived ideas.
There is only disagreement because people have hidden agendas. Sometimes our entire identity is at stake were we to change long held beliefs.
The test is Love. Do I see Love in those who would try to persuade me? God's Spirit is Love.
Personally I am sure I could learn from the two authors mentioned (though I prefer Charles Ryrie) but I would not buy either book because they are both Calvinists. As such they do not believe that God loves everyone - just the elect - the chosen few. I do not adhere to this interpretation of scripture.
The buck stops with each individual. That's the terrifying beauty of it all.
I don't know if this makes my position any clearer.
wilber |
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Thaddaeus
Tadpole
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Wilber,
I fully understand what you are saying.
| Quote: | | Should I trust Susan? No. Many people claim the Holy Spirit's guidance and come to different interpretations - so where does this leave me? |
First, no individual is given Truth or even prophecy. In John 16:13 Jesus is speaking to the Disciples personally. It is to them in particular that will recieve All Truth. In fact, Jesus tells them that if He does not leave them the Holy Spirit will not come. The Truth will be given on Christ authority by the Holy Spirit. It is given to them as the foundation of the Church. It is the Apostles that recieved all truth and it was they who diseminated that Truth to the early Church. Jesus promised to be with them until the end of time. Who will live to the end of time? It is His Church. It is the Body of Christ that will exist and hold that Truth until He returns.
The Holy Spirit does give anyone Truth, but leads all to that Truth. The Truth is Himself, the Person, the Logos, it is He that gave the Gospel, His Gospel and it is He that is preserving that Gospel in His Body. He is Head of that Body.
This is why individual interpretations taken from a Book that is only the written portion of the whole Gospel will rarely end in Truth. History has been repleat with the examples of individuals thinking that they can come up with a better gospel, a better understanding than the original. In every single case, individual interpreation has been wrong. It was ONCE given, Jude 3, and we are to find that Truth and are led by the Holy Spirit. But He is not giving each of us new revelation, a new gospel which is what most are claiming with their particular view or interpretation.
This is why Paul makes the claim that the Church is the pillar and ground of Truth. The Church is Christ. He is the Head over the Body, His Body. We are, as individuals, members of that Body. The Holy Spirit works in and through the Body of believers, to both preserve His Gospel and His Church.
| Quote: | | The buck stops with each individual. That's the terrifying beauty of it all. |
an individual has nothing to do with interpretating the Truth. It is a given. All we need to do is to believe and accept the Truth that was given. |
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