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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: WHAT IS SATAN? |
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This study seeks to establish what Satan is according to the Scriptures. Feel free to join in...
In Scripture Satan is described as:
The Old Serpent, Devil (Diabolos) and Dragon... (Rev 20:2)
The Fowls of Heaven (ouranos)...(Luk 8:5 & 8:12)
A Roaring Lion...(1 Pe 5:8)
An Angel (Messenger)...(2 Cor 12:7)
A Liar and the Father of Lies...(Joh 8:44)
A Murderer from the Beginning...(Joh 8:44)
The Accuser...(Rev 12:10)
The Tempter...(Mat 4:3)
Our Adversary...(1 Pe 5:8)
An Oppressor...(Acts 10:38)
One who Binds...(Luk 13:16)
To be continued... |
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JohnStevenson
Little Guppy
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 37
Location: Hollywood, FL USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: The Satan |
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Our English name "Satan" is a transliteration of the Hebrew which means "enemy." The verbal form means "to oppose."
It is interesting to note that the first Biblical use of this word describes the angel of the Lord:
But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an ADVERSARY against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (Numbers 22:22).
Another example of where this word refers to someone other than Satan is in the account of those who rose up in opposition to the reign of Solomon.
Then the LORD raised up an ADVERSARY to Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal line in Edom. (1 Kings 11:14).
Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: WHAT IS SATAN? |
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| bitterlily wrote: | This study seeks to establish what Satan is according to the Scriptures. Feel free to join in...
In Scripture Satan is described as:
The Old Serpent, Devil (Diabolos) and Dragon... (Rev 20:2)
The Fowls of Heaven (ouranos)...(Luk 8:5 & 8:12)
A Roaring Lion...(1 Pe 5:8)
An Angel (Messenger)...(2 Cor 12:7)
A Liar and the Father of Lies...(Joh 8:44)
A Murderer from the Beginning...(Joh 8:44)
The Accuser...(Rev 12:10)
The Tempter...(Mat 4:3)
Our Adversary...(1 Pe 5:8)
An Oppressor...(Acts 10:38)
One who Binds...(Luk 13:16)
To be continued... |
Hi BL!
The most Agappy NewYear and all that to you and yours and mom!
satan is also described as:
Loved by God!:
Matthew 5:43-48.
1 Peter 5:8-9.
Ephesians 6:10-12.
James 4:7-8.
Exodus 23:22.
1 Corin 5:5.
2 Cor 12:7-10.
There is some soul of goodness in things evil,
Would men observingly distil it out.
For our bad neighbour makes us early stirrers,
Which is both healthful and good husbandry:
Besides, they are our outward consciences,
And preachers to us all, admonishing
That we should dress us fairly for our end.
Thus may we gather honey from the weed,
And make a moral of the devil himself.
Henry V, [IV, 1]
Proverbs 16:
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself:
yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
In Love of enemies and friends, Mt 5:43-48
which Love permanently kills enemies
by making friends out of enemies, Ps 110:1,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Satan |
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| JohnStevenson wrote: | Our English name "Satan" is a transliteration of the Hebrew which means "enemy." The verbal form means "to oppose."
It is interesting to note that the first Biblical use of this word describes the angel of the Lord:
But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an ADVERSARY against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (Numbers 22:22).
Another example of where this word refers to someone other than Satan is in the account of those who rose up in opposition to the reign of Solomon.
Then the LORD raised up an ADVERSARY to Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal line in Edom. (1 Kings 11:14).
Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
Well said, JS!
Agape NY 2008 to you and yours!
with Love and R,
atoz |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
I think that comment is that part of the verse is very interesting.
Paul |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5860
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: Re: The Satan |
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| JohnStevenson wrote: | | Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
I love this. "Well, see, here's this accurate scholarship which shows that the idea of a singular being named Satan (as known to modern Christians-at-large) is utter crock, but I really can't go that far so ignore everything I've said okay" |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Re: The Satan |
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Hi John, Atoz and Paul,
Happy New Year to you all! 
| JohnStevenson wrote: | It is interesting to note that the first Biblical use of this word describes the angel of the Lord:
But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an ADVERSARY against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (Numbers 22:22)....
Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
Good points John! I think this verse in Numbers regarding the Lord standing as an Adversary (Satan) against Balaam is put into perspective when we read the verse Atoz quoted from Exodus which says:
But if you shall indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto your enemies, and an adversary unto your adversaries. Exodus 23:22
Also reminds me of this verse:
With the merciful you will show yourself merciful; with an upright man you will show yourself upright; With the pure you will show yourself pure; and with the froward you will show yourself froward. Psalms 18:25-26
Hi Atoz,
Loved your points about God loving Satan and the verses you quoted. Remember this one you quoted?:
To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:5
It reminded me of these verses:
Behold the fowls of the air(Luk 8:5 & 8:12): for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much better than they? Matthew 6:26
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great. Revelation 19:17-18
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:20-21
Hi Paul,
Very interesting verse indeed!
I did a bit of checking into this verse and this is what I found:
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get you behind me, Satan: you are an OFFENSE G4625 unto me: for you consider not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23
| Quote: | G4625
σκάνδαλον
skándalon; gen. skandálou, neut. noun. The trigger of a trap on which the bait is placed, and which, when touched by the animal, springs and causes it to close causing entrapment. The word and its deriv. belong only to biblical and ecclesiastical Gr. In the Sept. it answers to the word for pagís (G3803), trap. However, pagís always refers simply to a trap hidden in an ambush and not to the results; whereas skándalon involves a reference also to the conduct of the person who is thus trapped. |
skándalon involves a reference also to the conduct of the person who is thus trapped...
I'm not sure if I'm hearing this right but it sounds to me like Peter's conduct is an indication of his entrapment to Satan. Kind of like the Serpent who enticed Eve to take the forbidden fruit who then gave it to her Husband, Peter was savouring the things of man (the forbidden fruit) and was attempting to give it to the Last Adam to eat. But thankfully Jesus recognised the tree from which this fruit came and He refused to eat it.
Scripture gives the impression that the Apostle Peter was double-minded in his younger days as shown in these verses:
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17
Then a few verse later:
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get you behind me, Satan: you are an offense unto me: for you consider not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23
One minute Peter is being called Blessed and the next he is called an offense to Jesus. Reminds me of this verse:
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With this bless we God, even the Father; and with this curse we men, who are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceeds blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Does a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. James 3:8-12
For a while now I've been wondering whether the Tree of Knowledge of G & E was a Fig Tree while the Tree of Life was a Grapevine (the True Vine). Adam & Eve having made clothing out of Figleaves which was rejected by God as an inappropriate covering of their sin and replacing it with animal (Lamb?) skins. And also, Jesus cursed the Fig Tree having produced no Fruit:
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if perhaps he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of you hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it. Mark 11:13-14
Look at this interesting dialogue about the Fig Tree:
And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance said unto him, Teacher, behold, the fig tree which you cursed is withered away. And Jesus answering said unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be removed, and be cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he said shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he said. Mark 11:20-23
Have Faith in God???
Sounds like Jesus is speaking in code here. IOW, Savour the things of God not of Man (figleaves?)...
Remember also that Jesus said these things to Peter:
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and when you have converted, strengthen your brethren. Luke 22:31-32
He said unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, do you love me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Do you love me? And he said unto him, Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you. Jesus said unto him, Feed my sheep. Verily, verily, I say unto you, When you were young, you girded yourself (with a belt), and walked where you would: but when you shall be old, you shall stretch forth your hands, and another shall gird you (with a belt), and carry you where you would not. This spoke he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he said unto him, Follow me. John 21:17-19
Remember the Armor of God:
Stand therefore, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; Ephesians 6:14
Sounds like Jesus was making a promise to Peter that He would gird him with the belt of Truth:
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
How does that sound?
Lots of Love
Bitterlily |
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JohnStevenson
Little Guppy
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 37
Location: Hollywood, FL USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: The Satan |
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| FFT wrote: | | JohnStevenson wrote: | | Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
I love this. "Well, see, here's this accurate scholarship which shows that the idea of a singular being named Satan (as known to modern Christians-at-large) is utter crock, but I really can't go that far so ignore everything I've said okay" |
To the contrary, I was merely pointing out one aspect of the use of the term "satan." But this term is also used to refer to the name/title of a specific individual in the Bible, the creature who is presented as standing in opposition against God.
• He is seen in the first two chapters of Job as coming into the presence of God, presumably in a heavenly setting.
• In 1 Chronicles 21:1 he provokes David into taking an action that is contrary to God's will.
• In Matthew 4:3-10 he is referred to both as "Satan", "the devil", and "the tempter" as he comes to tempt Christ. The dialog that takes place between Christ and Satan shows that he is more than an impersonal force.
• He is seen in Luke 22:3 as entering into Judas Iscariot. This suggests some sort of influence and/or possession (see also John 13:27).
• Satan is said in 2 Corinthians 11:14 to disguise himself as an angel of light. |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Satan |
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| JohnStevenson wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | JohnStevenson wrote: | | Of course, this does not take away from the reality of THE Satan, the person who embodies this quality. |
I love this. "Well, see, here's this accurate scholarship which shows that the idea of a singular being named Satan (as known to modern Christians-at-large) is utter crock, but I really can't go that far so ignore everything I've said okay" |
To the contrary, I was merely pointing out one aspect of the use of the term "satan." But this term is also used to refer to the name/title of a specific individual in the Bible, the creature who is presented as standing in opposition against God.
• He is seen in the first two chapters of Job as coming into the presence of God, presumably in a heavenly setting.
• In 1 Chronicles 21:1 he provokes David into taking an action that is contrary to God's will.
• In Matthew 4:3-10 he is referred to both as "Satan", "the devil", and "the tempter" as he comes to tempt Christ. The dialog that takes place between Christ and Satan shows that he is more than an impersonal force.
• He is seen in Luke 22:3 as entering into Judas Iscariot. This suggests some sort of influence and/or possession (see also John 13:27).
• Satan is said in 2 Corinthians 11:14 to disguise himself as an angel of light. |
Hi John,
I've got a few more verses to add to your list for FFT:
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not. John 8:44-45
The truth of what Jesus said here is shown in Kings and Chronicles:
And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Inquire, I pray you, at the word of the LORD today. Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall I go against Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king. And Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might inquire of him? And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may inquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so. Then the king of Israel called an officer, and said, Bring quickly Micaiah the son of Imlah. And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah sat each on his throne, having put on their robes, in the threshing floor in the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus says the LORD, With these shall you push the Syrians, until you have consumed them. And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramoth-gilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king’s hand. And the messenger that had gone to call Micaiah spoke unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let your word, I pray you, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good. And Micaiah said, As the LORD lives, what the LORD says unto me, that will I speak. So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king. And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure you that you tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the LORD? And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace. And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell you that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil? And he said, Hear you therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, By what means? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all these your prophets, and the LORD has spoken evil concerning you. But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and struck Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto you? And Micaiah said, Behold, you shall see in that day, when you shall go into an inner chamber to hide yourself. And the king of Israel said, Take Micaiah, and carry him back unto Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king’s son; And say, Thus says the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace. And Micaiah said, If you return at all in peace, the LORD has not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you. 1 Kings 22:5-28 & 2 Chron 18:4-27
It was just like Jesus said to the Pharisees:
And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not. John 8:45 |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5860
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnStevenson wrote: | To the contrary, I was merely pointing out one aspect of the use of the term "satan." But this term is also used to refer to the name/title of a specific individual in the Bible, the creature who is presented as standing in opposition against God.
• He is seen in the first two chapters of Job as coming into the presence of God, presumably in a heavenly setting. |
Masterful scholarship. Satan stands in opposition to God and yet God holds a friendly contest with him?
| JohnStevenson wrote: | | • In 1 Chronicles 21:1 he provokes David into taking an action that is contrary to God's will. |
This is actually the standard "adversary" sense. A literal army opposes Israel, and Joab reprimands David for being concerned with numbers since they've got God on their side.
| JohnStevenson wrote: | | • In Matthew 4:3-10 he is referred to both as "Satan", "the devil", and "the tempter" as he comes to tempt Christ. The dialog that takes place between Christ and Satan shows that he is more than an impersonal force. |
The idea of Satan as a singular being opposed to God originated shortly before the Christians as a result of various pagan influences on Judaism.
As to the verses you posted, bitterlily, the spirit that volunteered to lie to prophets was just that--not "Satan." Why would a being opposed to God volunteer to do His work? Try to be rational. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hi BL,
Thanx for your comments.
Re. JC blessing and cursing Peter for Peter saying blessed and cursed things,
what is the difference between
what blessing and cursing came out of Peter's mouth
and
what blessing and cursing came out of JC's mouth
in reference to what God says about blessing and cursing NOT coming from the same mouth?
Is it a difference
in what is said,
or
in who is saying it,
or
in how in what manner of spirit it is said?
IOW,
How was Peter double-minded and
How JC NOT double-minded while they both blessed and cursed from the same mouth?
Great study, BL!
In the One Spirit Of Love by which God says opposite things from the same one heart and mouth,
Lev 26, Deut 28, Mt 12:34-37, Mk 7:21-22
Atoz |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | As to the verses you posted, bitterlily, the spirit that volunteered to lie to prophets was just that--not "Satan." |
Who is to say it wasn't Satan? Satan is a lying Spirit, and it sounds like the same lying Spirit that said to Eve:
...Yea, has God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1...
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5
| FFT wrote: | | Why would a being opposed to God volunteer to do His work? Try to be rational. |
Rational??? Why I am FFT, can't you understand it?
If we believe the words of the NT even the Serpent in Eden was doing God's work:
For the creation was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope, Romans 8:20
The Serpent Satan had different motives for deceiving mankind:
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44
The thief comes not, but to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10
But in the end God's purpose for all things is acchieved:
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies. Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For your sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:28-39
The Story of Job is an example of Satan doing the Lords work as is described here:
For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then are you illegitimate children, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh who corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them who are trained by it. Therefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Hebrews 12:6-14
Fear none of those things which you will suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days: be faithful unto death, and I will give you a crown of life. He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:10-11
Kind Regards
Bitterlily |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5860
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| bitterlily wrote: | | Who is to say it wasn't Satan? |
Wouldn't it have clarified?
| bitterlily wrote: | Satan is a lying Spirit, and it sounds like the same lying Spirit that said to Eve:
...Yea, has God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1...
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5 |
I'm sorry. Which part of that wasn't true?
| bitterlily wrote: | The Serpent Satan had different motives for deceiving mankind:
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44 |
I'll give you a hint: the first liar wasn't the serpent  |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | bitterlily wrote: | | Who is to say it wasn't Satan? |
Wouldn't it have clarified? |
There is plenty of evidence in the Scriptures that show things are not always clarified. And it seems that the more important a matter is in Scripture the less it is clarified. For example, the Lord gives no clarity about how He would be the following to both houses of Israel:
Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be as a sanctuary; but a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a trap and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Isaiah 8:13-15
| FFT wrote: | | bitterlily wrote: | Satan is a lying Spirit, and it sounds like the same lying Spirit that said to Eve:
...Yea, has God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1...
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5 |
I'm sorry. Which part of that wasn't true? |
I'm glad you asked FFT!
According to the NT we were all dead in our sins. Sin being defined as the transgression of the Law (1 Jn 3:4):
And you has he made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins: Ephesians 2:1
Even when we were dead in sins, has made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you are saved;)Ephesians 2:5
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Colossians 2:13
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Matthew 8:22
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things says he that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know your works, that you have a name that you live, and are dead. Revelation 3:1
| FFT wrote: | | bitterlily wrote: | The Serpent Satan had different motives for deceiving mankind:
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44 |
I'll give you a hint: the first liar wasn't the serpent |
So what's your theory? Do you overlook the Serpent's deceit because Adam and Eve didn't die physically the moment they ate the forbidden fruit? Have you considered the possibility that their death was Spiritual? Have you asked the question as to why Adam and Eve didn't know that they were naked? The greater question to be asked is why did Adam and Eve upon learning of their nakedness, hide themselves from the Lord yet the Prophet Isaiah willingly walked naked before the Lord for 3 years:
At the same time spoke the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and remove the sackcloth from off your body, and put off your shoes from your feet. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Just as my servant Isaiah has walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder against Egypt and against Ethiopia; Isaiah 20:2-3
Maybe it was because while Isaiah was physically Naked he was clothed with the Spirit of God.
It is assumed by some that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit that they were imparted with the profound knowledge that they were naked; full stop; end of story; NO IMMEDIATE DEATH. But there is a verse in Revelations that tells us that their true nakedness was more than just having no clothes on:
Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white clothing, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness does not appear; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. Revelation 3:17-18
Maybe these Laodiceans were wearing see-through figleaves instead of the garment of Lamb's skin that God made for us:
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.Romans 13:14
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:27-28
The garment of skins that God made for Adam and Eve was equivalent to God bringing them back to Life from the Dead. Enabling them to have fellowship with Him again without being ashamed of their Nakedness.
Lots of Love
Bitterlily |
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trettep
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: | Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
I think that comment is that part of the verse is very interesting.
Paul |
Bitterlily, do you see this verse as saying that Satan worships man? See this is what struck me about that verse because if Satan is mindful or regarding the things of man then why? I would have thought previously that man's fault was in savouring the things that were of Satan and not viceversa. That is what intrigues me about the verses is how it is worded. This makes me think that the spirit of man is Satan. This is important to make the destinction because if that is the case then our universalism takes a different perspective on salvation of Satan. If it is indeed a reference to the spirit in man then it would have to be concluded as the dross.
Paul |
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