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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6114
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | He said it was unnatural and shameful. |
So's driving a Hummer, but does that make it sinful?
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | He would also assume that his audience would be aware that it's considered by God to be an abomination because of the Jewish Scripture. |
Temple prostitution is considered by God to be an abomination. Homosexuality is not.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So's driving a Hummer, but does that make it sinful? |
What kind of lopsided argument is that?
| Quote: | | Temple prostitution is considered by God to be an abomination. Homosexuality is not. |
That's what you're reading into the Scripture because you don't have the least bit of interest in what God really thinks of homosexuality. Nothing in the Exodus and Leviticus passages restricts the condemnation of homosexuality to temple romps. Why even pretend that you adhere to Scripture?
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| stmike wrote: | | Why even pretend that you adhere to Scripture? |
I challenge you to demonstrate where FFT has ever given anyone the impression that he adhered to scripture.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Rev,
Am I assuming hastily? Those who attempt to rewrite the Bible to suite their errors seem to want to keep the facade of adherence to Scripture. Liberal congregations do this all the time.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6114
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | Nothing in the Exodus and Leviticus passages restricts the condemnation of homosexuality to temple romps. |
The word translated "abomination" literally means "ritually unclean." Everywhere else in the Old Testament that it is written in the same way is a reference to such things as idol worship.
Two guys having sex for no reason other than that they want to? It's not a ritual, so the Levitical condemnations don't apply. Now, it's fornication assuming they aren't married, but that's the only way such behavior can legitimately be condemned.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | Why even pretend that you adhere to Scripture? |
Not only do I not, I've never even implied that I do. It's that "atheism" thing.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: |
.........
I would paint you black first and send you holding hands with a white woman. |
You so artistic!
How stunning!smile
And to match,
i'll take the Black Madonna with me!smile
Those colors wd be The Colors of Love to me,
and so
armed with Love alone,--yet because of having Love with me, having God with me---
i wd charm the kkk in no time flat!
Check this out:
matthew 10:
17But beware of men:
for they will deliver you up to the councils,
and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19But when they deliver you up,
take no thought how or what ye shall speak:
for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20For it is not ye that speak,
but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Like this:smile
A lover's eyes will gaze an eagle blind;
A lover's ear will hear the lowest sound,
When the suspicious head of theft is stopp'd:
Love's feeling is more soft and sensible
Than are the tender horns of cockl'd snails;
Love's tongue proves dainty Bacchus gross in taste:
For valour, is not Love a Hercules,
Still climbing trees in the Hesperides?
Subtle[b] as Sphinx; [b]as sweet and musical
As bright Apollo's lute, strung with his hair:
*And when Love speaks,* the voice of all the gods
Makes heaven drowsy with the harmony.
Never durst poet touch a pen to write
Until his ink were temper'd with Love's sighs;
O, then his lines would ravish savage ears
And plant in tyrants mild humility.
Love's Labour's Lost [IV, 3]
Black Madonna, Pray For Us!
In God's Love that
transforms the KKK into LLL, Psalms 110:1
transfigures th' Klu Klux Klan into Living Loving Liberators, smile
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Evee wrote: |
.....
I agree w/StMike & Sel. Just b/c someone says they don't like something someone is doing & thinks they're committing a sin doesn't mean they hate them. If your children were doing something you didn't like or approve of, does that mean that you love them any less? Of course not. |
Hi Evee,
Thanx for your comment!
Can you give me an example of your kids doing something that you did not like,
where you also liked them as what they became when they doing whatever you did not like?
Here is my example:
Suppose one son hit another son,
and
you did not like him hitting his brother.
At that point,
do you love him as a hitter while hating what hitting he did to become a hitter?
Can you love hitters without loving hits?
Can you love the hitter while hating hits?
Is that why people have such a hard time separating the sin from the sinner?
Like because it can't be done?smile
Can you love hitters without wanting hits?
Now that is a different question!smile
But do you love what you want and what you don't want?
At that point of one son hitting the other,
can you hate his hits while hitting, er, ah, I mean, spanking[!smile] that son for hitting his bro without condemning yourself for hitting him for hitting his brother?smile
What if your son said to you as you raised your arm to hit him:
Mom,
can you hit me,
and
let me spank my brother?smile
Please, Mommy!
When we win, are we winners?
Can we love winners while hating winning?
When we lose, are we losers?
Can we love losers while hating losing or hating loss?
When we succeed, are we successors?
Can we love successors while hating succeeding.
When we fail, are we failures?
Can we love failures while hating failing?
in the Hit of Love for all kinds of hits: baseball and music, etc,
which elimiantes the first real bad hit: the Hit of Hate for any hitters or hits,
while loving the hitters who are hitters because they hit those hits,smile
and in Love of what we want and of what we don't want,
atoz |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Atoz said:
| Quote: | Here is my example:
Suppose one son hit another son,
and
you did not like him hitting his brother.
At that point,
do you love him as a hitter while hating what hitting he did to become a hitter?
Can you love hitters without loving hits?
Can you love the hitter while hating hits?
Is that why people have such a hard time separating the sin from the sinner?
Like because it can't be done?smile
Can you love hitters without wanting hits?
Now that is a different question!smile
But do you love what you want and what you don't want?
At that point of one son hitting the other,
can you hate his hits while hitting, er, ah, I mean, spanking[!smile] that son for hitting his bro without condemning yourself for hitting him for hitting his brother?smile
What if your son said to you as you raised your arm to hit him:
Mom,
can you hit me,
and
let me spank my brother?smile
Please, Mommy!
|
Sorry, sir, I don't buy your "you-love-you're-son-so-you-must-love-satan-too" argument. Nor do I buy your unbiblical anti-spanking argument.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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Jacinth
Ferret
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 119
Location: The Atlantic Coastal Plain
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| smdt, I see you are an advocate of spanking. Interesting... |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | smdt, I see you are an advocate of spanking. Interesting...
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By all means, start a thread!
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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mikeinsarasota
Little Guppy
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: | | Evee wrote: |
.....
I agree w/StMike & Sel. Just b/c someone says they don't like something someone is doing & thinks they're committing a sin doesn't mean they hate them. If your children were doing something you didn't like or approve of, does that mean that you love them any less? Of course not. |
Hi Evee,
Thanx for your comment!
Can you give me an example of your kids doing something that you did not like,
where you also liked them as what they became when they doing whatever you did not like?
Here is my example:
Suppose one son hit another son,
and
you did not like him hitting his brother.
At that point,
do you love him as a hitter while hating what hitting he did to become a hitter?
Can you love hitters without loving hits?
Can you love the hitter while hating hits?
Is that why people have such a hard time separating the sin from the sinner?
Like because it can't be done?smile
Can you love hitters without wanting hits?
Now that is a different question!smile
But do you love what you want and what you don't want?
At that point of one son hitting the other,
can you hate his hits while hitting, er, ah, I mean, spanking[!smile] that son for hitting his bro without condemning yourself for hitting him for hitting his brother?smile
What if your son said to you as you raised your arm to hit him:
Mom,
can you hit me,
and
let me spank my brother?smile
Please, Mommy!
When we win, are we winners?
Can we love winners while hating winning?
When we lose, are we losers?
Can we love losers while hating losing or hating loss?
When we succeed, are we successors?
Can we love successors while hating succeeding.
When we fail, are we failures?
Can we love failures while hating failing?
in the Hit of Love for all kinds of hits: baseball and music, etc,
which elimiantes the first real bad hit: the Hit of Hate for any hitters or hits,
while loving the hitters who are hitters because they hit those hits,smile
and in Love of what we want and of what we don't want,
atoz |
this is just my opinuion, but you sound like a wannabe intillectual in high shcool or somthing. theres a coherent way to write things, and this isnt it. do you wish you were some deep, famous poet or somthing? |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 644
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Atoz,
You asked several things:
| atoz wrote: | Can we love winners while hating winning?
Can we love losers while hating losing or hating loss?
Can we love successors while hating succeeding.
Can we love failures while hating failing? |
Yes. It is possible to seperate the sin from the sinner. God does it all the time. He loves us yet we continue to disappoint Him & do things we shouldn't do.
That's what correction & discipline is about. It's about loving your children enough to try to keep them on the path of righteousness. If we didn't love them, we'd let them do whatever they wanted.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Mike said:
| Quote: |
this is just my opinuion, but you sound like a wannabe intillectual in high shcool or somthing. theres a coherent way to write things, and this isnt it. do you wish you were some deep, famous poet or somthing? |
Mike,
Welcome to the board! I see you've met Atoz, our most loquatious member. He gives new meaning to the phrase, "so much, yet so little." But he means well.
I look forward to reading more of your posts, sir.
In the Sacred Heart of Christ,
James
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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thinkin to myself...
the brother hits the brother. Then the mother hits the brother for hitting the brother.
is then the hitting good or bad?
mother hit me for good for hitting my brother for bad.
hmm..
what if the brother hit the brother for good?
was it bad he got hit for hitting?
just thinkin
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 644
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | thinkin to myself...
the brother hits the brother. Then the mother hits the brother for hitting the brother.
is then the hitting good or bad?
mother hit me for good for hitting my brother for bad.
hmm..
what if the brother hit the brother for good?
was it bad he got hit for hitting?
just thinkin |
I'm reminded of Romans 12:21: Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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