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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Evee said:
| Quote: | saintmike wrote:
Sorry, linguistic inflection can shed some light on what the speaker wished to convey, but not to the degree that it delivers the exact opposite message than what's translated. All the translators have the same access to the same Greek manuscripts, but all seem to translate Paul's words as a strong condemnation of homosexuality, and I doubt they were all mistaken, as you seem to be implying.
| Quote: | | Then why invent a word? You don't suppose it is possible that translators brought their own preconceived ideas into translating texts? |
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All of them involved in a conspiracy to conceal the true meaning of Paul's words? No, I don't suppose it's possible.
| Quote: | saintmike wrote:
Paul said that men burned in their lust for one another and committed shameful acts
| Quote: | | He also was talking about people who turned away from the one true God & worshipped other gods. |
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He was condemning many sins, but homosexuality was certainly one of them.
| Quote: | | What did these other gods require from their followers? Sex in front of the altar. Men dressing up as women & pretending to be something or someone they weren't. Why isn't worshipping practices of these cultures discussed? Why is it ignored when interpreting these passages? |
Nope. Try again. Paul was extremely well versed in Scripture and would not have missed the clear meaning of: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. . . . If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them" (Lev. 18:22, 20:13). Paul would have noted that God wasn't speaking strictly of alter fornications, but any time a man has sexual relations with a man.
| Quote: | | Cultural background needs to be explored. We weren't there. The people Paul was speaking to knew exactly what was going on around them. So they knew exactly what he was saying. We are left w/studying the cultural background in order to understand just what type of people Paul was talking to & just what type of people Paul was speaking out against. Shouldn't that be considered? |
Strange how you were not so eager to explore the cultural background in reference to Marian doctrines. You want to believe something different than what the Bible clearly states, so now you want to explore "cultural backgrounds" to see if God really meant it when he said homosexuality is an abomination.
| Quote: | | Paul had no idea that he was writing "scripture" when he wrote these epistles. |
Therefore, everything he wrote is subject to question unless he happens to concur with what we want to believe.
| Quote: | | No He doesn't. But He does guide people to the truth when they think they know everything & they really don't. You make light of my experience, but it is very real to me & it was very humbling. |
I also know people who sincerely believe that they were "slain in the Spirit" when in fact no such thing happened. The mind is capable of creating extremely convincing religious experiences upon command. Martin Luther lamented all the preposterous doctrines being floated by people claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit. This is why we need more guidance than our personal spine tingles, we need a Church.
Not to make light of your experience, Evee, but sometimes we have a very close encounter with God, but we filter his message through our flesh and get it wrong. Perhaps God was conveying his deep love for those who struggle with homosexuality; this I believe is very possible. But there's no way he told you that it's ok to engage in homosexual activity...unless He has become suddenly a God of contradictions.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmike wrote: | | All of them involved in a conspiracy to conceal the true meaning of Paul's words? No, I don't suppose it's possible. |
I am not talking about a conspiracy to deliberately confuse people. Sorry but translators are human too. They err in everything else except biblical translation? Now that I don't buy. And, everyone has preconceived ideas when it comes to reading the Bible. If you're taught something your whole life & then go to read it for yourself, more than likely you're going to bring what you were taught to the table w/you.
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. . . . If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them"
I always wondered exactly how you do that.  No one as of yet has given an explanation. Anyway, I digress. When the laws in Levitics were written, what's the first thing the Lord said? He says, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices."
The OT is filled w/the Hebrews turning their back on God & worshipping other gods. What did God want from them? He wanted them to follow Him & Him only. Everytime the Israelites came into contact w/another nation, they ended up worshipping their gods instead of the true God. Correct? Do you realize how intertwined sex & religion was for the Canaanites? Everything the Canaanites did was to appease their gods.
| saintmike wrote: | | Strange how you were not so eager to explore the cultural background in reference to Marian doctrines. You want to believe something different than what the Bible clearly states, so now you want to explore "cultural backgrounds" to see if God really meant it when he said homosexuality is an abomination. |
Another thing that is untrue. If I didn't want to explore the Marian doctrines, we wouldn't have had the conversation we had in that other thread. I just didn't agree w/you, the same as you're not agreeing w/me here & not seeing what I'm saying. I didn't see how you came to those conclusions & you don't see how I come to mine. Where's the difference?
| saintmike wrote: | | Therefore, everything he wrote is subject to question unless he happens to concur with what we want to believe. |
No. We just need to keep that in mind. It means we don't shut our eyes & pretend it doesn't exist.
| saintmike wrote: | | Not to make light of your experience, Evee, but sometimes we have a very close encounter with God, but we filter his message through our flesh and get it wrong. Perhaps God was conveying his deep love for those who struggle with homosexuality; this I believe is very possible. But there's no way he told you that it's ok to engage in homosexual activity...unless He has become suddenly a God of contradictions. |
Now here's the guy that I was talking w/in the Mary threads. Welcome back.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6364
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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now see, I find this odd..
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.
now here we are talking about removing the tares no?
so if there are two men in one bed then why are they both not taken?
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
ok so maybe he's leaving the tares and removing the wheat..hmm..
either way, one is taken and one remains..
If both are guilty why not the same for both?
what do you think it means two men in one bed?
just tossin..
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, the gay community tries to say that Abraham Lincoln was gay because he shared a bed with another man. In Europe, they still do that sometimes, but then again, they'll also greet you with a kiss on each cheek. It may seem strange to us, but I think our overreaching homophobia is disordered, not the Europeans.
Anyway, beds were hard to come by, and two men sleeping in the same bed was very common. Children would grow up sleeping in the same bed, as houses didn't have 3-5 bedrooms like they do today. In Jesus day, wood was also a scarce commodity, which caused many to think Jesus was a mason worker rather than strictly a carpentar. In any event, I'm sure Jesus wasn't giving his blessing to two homosexual men having at each other in the same bed.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | towshab wrote: | | james wrote: | I have always seen the OT as a shadow of the NT as stated in Hebrews. Having said this in the OT only the Levitical men were allowed to do the priestly duties, not women. Yet what is their roll today in accord with the NT ?
(That is all I am saying seeing how I have never like the way my feet taste.) |
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Yes, YHVH decided to purposely keep people in the dark (shadow) for thousands of years and then He decided it was time to change things and bring the whole truth to a bunch of idol worshiping pagans.
Give me a break.
Just what exactly is meant by this response, and please use scripture if you have a point to make. |
Did you list scripture in your response? No. So why do you require me to do so?
But please feel free to show me in your 'old testament' where the Torah will be abolished and be a shadow of the 'new testament'. I won't hold my breath. |
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james
Tiger
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 848
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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towshab, if you read my response again you may see the word Hebrews, as mentioned in my quote as to where you can find this scripture Chapter 10 to narrow it down for you. As for the OT being abolished Heb 8:13, and all of chapter 9.
My point in the post was to mention only Levitical man could do the priestly duties, not women. It seems you like to distract from the main thread. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Homosexual "marriage" and Theology |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | This heated and ongoing issue in this country does bring some theological questions to be answered. Gays everywhere are fighting for the "right to be married" redefining marriage in such a way that people are already asking whether or not they can be married to their pets.
It always irritates me when conservatives talk about whether gays should be allowed to marry, which displays ignorance of the larger issue. You see, I don't worry about whether a man should be allowed to marry a man, because I know it's impossible. God has made men to be joined only to women, both physically and spiritually:
24(A)For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2
Homosexuals pretending that they're "married" are like children playing "house". They go through the motions and create an alter-reality for themselves. This isn't something new, this is an ancient sin that Paul addressed in his day:
Romans 1:
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.
25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
"Gay marriage" is a make believe proposition for this precise reason. Paul says they are darkened in their foolishness, therefore they are deluded. Forgotten is the Covenant Marriage that involves a party of three, a man, a woman, and God. If any of these three are removed, there is no marriage.
So men cannot marry men and women cannot marry women by sheer virtue of gender. It's impossible.
Another example is liberal Catholics ever trying to get women into the priesthood. Whenever this question is presented to the Magisterium, the answer is always a terse, "This issue is closed." We won't even pretend that there can be any discussion on the matter because God did not create women with that role, nor is a woman permitted spiritual authority over a man. (1Tim 2:12) Gender mixing is addressed in the Bible as an abomination. (Deuteronomy 22:5) and its attempt is rebellion against God. Women are barred from the priesthood by their gender, just as a man is barred from marrying another man by his gender.
All of this is Satan's ongoing rebellion against God and all that God has declared holy. Marriage and family are the strength and fabric of society, is it any wonder why marriage and family are under such ceaseless attack?[/b] |
Ok Mike,
U've have had a good run!smile
The first question to you is:
Do you love God unconditionally?
The 2nd is:
Would you love God under the condition of God being the least gay or lesbian of these?
Here is God on it to you since lots of those sick or in prison are homosexual:
1 John 4:
20If a man say,
I love God,
and
hateth his brother,
he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Or paraphrased as:
if a man say,
I love God as straight,
and
I hate his bro as gay,
he is a liar when He says He loves God,
since he is also saying that IF God were gay he wd hate God:
so true enough, he hates his brother as he wd hate God IF God were gay.
Matthew 25:
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come,
ye blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him,
saying,
Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee?
or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in?
or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick,
or in prison,
and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,
ye have done it unto me.
One more q:
Wd you love and marry JC as the Male Bridegroom
if He were
or inasmuch as He was
or under the condition of Him being
or conditioned on Him being straight or gay,
or on the conditionality of Him marrying other straights and gays?
Revelation 19:
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings,
saying,
Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me,
Write,
Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.
And he saith unto me,
These are the true sayings of God.
Just to encourage all others and you even more as to what your answer shd be:
Matthew 22:
12And he saith unto him,
Friend,
how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment[the Attitude of Love that we are be wearing in & on our hearts and minds at our wedding]?
And he was speechless.
Philippians 4:
11Not that I speak in respect of want:
for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12I know both how to be abased,
and I know how to abound:
*every where and in all things* I am instructed[initiated into the secret] both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13I can do *all things* through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Finally,
something to practice saying in Love to God & JC as David said to his friend Jonathan!smile
2 Samuel 1:
26I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan:
very pleasant hast thou been unto me:
thy love to me was wonderful,
passing the love of women.
In unconditional Love for God
in all states & under all conditions,
atoz |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Atoz,
I get your point. In the sinner we are to see the face of Christ and love Him. I get it.
What have I said to indicate that I hate gay people?
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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that is what one is supposed to do...if they say something one doesn't agree with...then slander them as haters...
atoz is teaches that...  ...apparently he thinks that is how love operates... |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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TSS,
Having seen Atoz's posts for some time (and you've seen them much longer) I can only conclude that he erroneously thinks love means accepting the sin of the sinners. He doesn't seem to grasp the "love the sinner, hate the sin" piety of Christianity. If I attack the practice of homosexuality, and hate it, then I must hate homosexuals too. A Christian would know the difference. Which is why I will keep asking him what he is.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6277
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | I get your point. In the sinner we are to see the face of Christ and love Him. I get it.
What have I said to indicate that I hate gay people? |
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | "it's ok to be gay" FTT said:
*Man's Man* defender wrote:
Brokeback Mountain wrote: |
I note that you've yet to make any response to my last post.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | TSS,
Having seen Atoz's posts for some time (and you've seen them much longer) I can only conclude that he erroneously thinks love means accepting the sin of the sinners. He doesn't seem to grasp the "love the sinner, hate the sin" piety of Christianity. If I attack the practice of homosexuality, and hate it, then I must hate homosexuals too. A Christian would know the difference. Which is why I will keep asking him what he is. |
I agree w/StMike & Sel. Just b/c someone says they don't like something someone is doing & thinks they're committing a sin doesn't mean they hate them. If your children were doing something you didn't like or approve of, does that mean that you love them any less? Of course not.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: |
Atoz,
I get your point.
In the sinner we are to see the face of Christ and love Him.
I get it.
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Mike,
That is an outstanding way to say that you got my, er, ah, God's point!smile
Reminiscient of:
Gen 33:
9And Esau said,
I have enough, my brother;
keep that thou hast unto thyself.
10And Jacob said,
Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand:
for therefore I have seen thy face as though I had seen the face of God,
and
thou wast pleased with me.
I wd recommend you now do a Jacob-to-Israel name change: saintmikefarmthem!smile
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: |
What have I said to indicate that I hate gay people?
|
Hmmm.
None of this is to take away from the above!
Ok?smile
I got the implication that you did hate gays from all you have said---which is why I asked the questions---but you did not explicitly say so.
And Mike, that was the whole point why I asked you those questions:
'I love gays' was the first thing you did NOT say and have not said--unless I missed it---so it was implied as you mentioned to Evee on another point.smile
Kind of glaring omission when dealing with gays---as it implies what you mentioned to Twoshab re. priests in their molestation of kids.
Plus,
getting the point means that you see that hating hitler or mohammed[easu's descendant!] or whoever for any other reason, which is as any other word, means you wd hate gays as them or them as gays.
Do you connect the dots?
In other words, Mike,
it's like God says in 1 John 4:20:
if I say that I hate pentecostals,
and I say that I love gays,
what I am wholly saying is that
I also hate gays as pentecostal
and
I also love pentecostals as gay.
Plus,
when we love gays or whoever,
we see that their primary sin is their hatred for themselves, and that it is NOT their gay acts or whatever.
We see that their sin of hatred leads to the acts we decry, which acts are NOT wrong in themselves, but are made so by the wrong of Hatred IN the thought or word or deed.
So when we do a subject on homosexuality,
we wd start off with God's premise of Love for gays,
then
zero in on any sin of hatred IN the gays that made them go gay or made whoever was born gay to be so hateful of heterosexuality IN their gaiety....which sin of hatred is always what str8 Hate they learned from or were taught by str8s!
Follow?
Now just to prove to yourself that you do love gays and that you do not hate any gays, all you have to say is:
I love myself as all gays and so love all gays as myself!smile
Matthew 12:
34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?
for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things:
and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36But I say unto you,
That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37For by thy words thou shalt be justified,
and
by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Annyway,
just to end as we begun on that upbeat note of Love:
| mike wrote: |
I get your point.
In the sinner we are to see the face of Christ and love Him.
I get it.
|
In Love of all words so that I love myself as all gays and so love all gays as myself, and so that I love God if He were gay, straight, hermaphroditic, asexual, neuter or whatever as myself,
atoz |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Atoz said
| Quote: | | I wd recommend you now do a Jacob-to-Israel name change: saintmikefarmthem!smile |
To keep this peaceable, I'll refrain from some of the suggestions I have for your new name.
| Quote: | | I got the implication that you did hate gays from all you have said---which is why I asked the questions---but you did not explicitly say so. |
You're right, I didn't. Kinda makes you wish you had clarified that first, doesn't it?
| Quote: | | 'I love gays' was the first thing you did NOT say and have not said |
Sorry. I was speaking to Christians for whom loving the sinner is axiomatic. I'll remember in the future that I need to specify these things for you.
| Quote: | Now just to prove to yourself that you do love gays and that you do not hate any gays, all you have to say is:
I love myself as all gays and so love all gays as myself!smile |
Somehow I don't feel obligated to jump through your hoops.
| Quote: | | In Love of all words so that I love myself as all gays and so love all gays as myself, and so that I love God if He were gay, straight, hermaphroditic, asexual, neuter or whatever as myself, |
Preach it at a KKK rally where it might do some good.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | TSS,
Having seen Atoz's posts for some time (and you've seen them much longer) I can only conclude that he erroneously thinks love means accepting the sin of the sinners. He doesn't seem to grasp the "love the sinner, hate the sin" piety of Christianity. If I attack the practice of homosexuality, and hate it, then I must hate homosexuals too. A Christian would know the difference. Which is why I will keep asking him what he is. |
Hmmm
Let me try again!smile
God loves us as just and as unjust: Mt 5:43-48.
Therefore, the first SIN is hatred of the unjust!
The first sin is NOT the injustice that the unjust practices!
The first sin is the Injustice of Hatred for the unjust IN the unjust!
So God loves the unjust sinner
and hates the sin of hatred IN the unjust sinner which sin of Hatred makes the sinners's injustice doubly unjust and makes any justice he does do unjust!
By loving the sinner's injustice,
God can then use that very injustice IN LOVE on that sinner: meting out in Love the very injustice which the sinner meted out in Hate!
matthew 7:1-5.
So too I love all sinners and hate the sin of all sinners: the sin of hating themselves as any word!
Therefore, no thought or word or act is a sin of itself---
Rom 14:14. 1 Corin 6:12. 10:23----
just as killing is NOT a sin of itself---
but any HATRED in the killing is THE sin----
which is why God told Abraham to kill him son in Love and
God Himself killed his son in Love---
the sin of Hatred in the killers of JC making their killing murder or an unholy killing---
the Love in the same killing planned in Love by God making HIS killing a holy sacrifice of his son!!
God's 6th commandment is against murder which is to kill in Hate, Exodus 20:13,
which means that Hatred in attitude or in thought or word is the first killing sin---of Love---in Hate by Hate: the murder of Love being the first murder that Hatred commits every time!
Which is why Hatred is the spirit of murder and the spirit of sin!
So Mike, let me ask you again--on another subject but on the same principle:
Do you hate the practice of killing but love sinners called killers,
as you hate the practice of homosexualizing but love sinners called homosexuals?
If you hate the act of killing as a sin,:
are you saying that God sins by killing,
and sinned by killing his son? John 3:16
are you saying that God sinned by telling abraham to kill? See Genesis 22.
are you saying that JC sinned by taking his own life or by planning to have it taken?
See John 10:18. Acts 4:28-29.
When you were in Uraq,
did you sin by killing,
or
did you sin by hating those you killed, before, during and after you killed them?
Do you hate the killing God does as you hate the killing you did, the killing you hate as a sin?
Can you overlook both the practice of killing you hate and the practice of homosexuality you hate?
Hope that helps to concentrate and clarify your thinking like a laser so you can think in the Light of Love like JC, Phil 2:5,
and
so see that you can't hate
the thought without hating the thinker,
nor the spoken word without hating the speaker,
nor act without hating the actor
just as you can't hate the act of killing
without hating God as killer!smile
One more time:
1 John 4:
20If a man say,
I love God, [as a killer who kills]
and
hateth his brother, [as a killer who kills]
he is a liar: [who hates himself as a liar]
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen [as killer who kills],
how can he love God whom he hath not seen [as a killer who kills]?
Did you get God's point just a little more?
I hope so.
I keep telling you
who&what I am is everyone&every thing,
but your ears are still more dull than less dull,
though they are less dull today
than they were yesterday!smile
Good news tho:
U will know what I am
when
you know what you are!smile
And you will know what you are,
when
you know what God is!!!!!
Do you know what God is?
Like this:
1 John 3
1Behold,
what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew him not.
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but
we know that, when he shall appear,
we shall be like him;
for we shall see him as he is.
3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
in God's Pure Love for all sinners,
in God's Pure Hate for no sinners,
and
in God's Pure Hate for only the sin of hating any sinner,
atoz |
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