 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: Would anyone stop loving God *if* He were homosexual? |
 |
|
Romans 8:
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
shall
tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded that neither
death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
in Love,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Would anyone stop loving God *if* He were homosexual? |
|
|
| atoz wrote: | Romans 8:
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
shall
tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded that neither
death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
in Love,
atoz |
Let’s not overlook Paul’s use of the word “us” in this passage. The word “us” here delineates a specific group of persons, that is, persons who have been born again and baptized as believers in and followers of Christ. From Paul’s perspective, practicing homosexuals are NOT included.
1 Cor. 6:8. On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Notice the word “were” (past tense) in verse 11.
If God were homosexual, He would not be God.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
george
Tadpole
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 26
Location: ohio
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Notice the word “were” (past tense) in verse 11. |
I happen to notice that Paul also states quite clearly, “…do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God…” Is any actually righteous in the present tense???? Were these recipients of the letter (the washed and sanctified) good practicing examples?
Just a note! Paul also states that Flesh and Blood will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven either and we can’t much change that can we???
Just my thought,
‘The tense doesn’t imply what you indicate! It only defines what will be within the Kingdom in contrast to what exists in Earth and the church now. Salvation is not based on personal righteousness but on Christ’s righteousness transferred as an unmerited gift.’
| Quote: | | If God were homosexual, He would not be God. |
Wow! Does your God have to be heterosexual to be God??? Should we even contemplate the orientation of Jesus? Based on Revelations 14:4, it seems to me that Christians would practice celibacy if they desired true spirituality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Craig2uguys
Hamster
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 87
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| george wrote: | | Salvation is not based on personal righteousness but on Christ’s righteousness transferred as an unmerited gift.’ |
1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Rom. 6:1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom. 7:1. Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?
2. For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband.
3. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Rom. 8:1. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4. so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NASB, 1995))
When the righteousness of Christ is imparted to one believing in the Christian gospel, the one believing is born again as a new creation in Christ Jesus. Sin and debauchery, including all forms of homosexual behavior, become a thing of the past because the sinful part of the believer, the first husband (Rom. 7:2), has died and the believer is joined to Christ and we have a new Christian.
_________________
2 Cor. 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (NKJV) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I try not to get in to irrelevant and outlandish hypotheticals.
Would you love God if he were made of green cheese?
Please
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| amen smdt!!!... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Would anyone stop loving God *if* He were homosexual? |
|
|
| Craig2uguys wrote: |
| atoz wrote: | Romans 8:
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
shall
tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded that neither
death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
in Love,
atoz |
Let’s not overlook Paul’s use of the word “us” in this passage. The word “us” here delineates a specific group of persons, that is, persons who have been born again and baptized as believers in and followers of Christ. From Paul’s perspective, practicing homosexuals are NOT included.
|
Right, C2u, practicing gays are excluded from 'us.'
What God & Paul are asking is:
Will we or 'US'
allow
hatred of tribulation,
or hatred of distress,
or hatred of persecution,
or hatred of famine,
or hatred of nakedness,
or hatred of peril,
or hatred of sword
or hatred of GAYS
or hatred of LIARS
or hatred of whatever words to separate US,
to STOP us from loving God?
Do you follow?
What stops US from loving God?
What condition will stop US from loving God?
Any condition that stops US from loving God makes our Love for God conditional.
Do you see?
| Craig2uguys wrote: |
......
If God were homosexual, He would not be God.
[/color]
|
So you have just put 'homosexual' as the word or the condition
that stops you from loving God,
that stops you from seeing God as God---
since for you,
the condition that God has to be in order to be God to you and for you to love Him is:straight.
Do you follow?
Loving God under both conditions of straight and gay is what is Unconditional Love.
Do you understand?
THis is good since it will help you to really love God unconditionally.
But first,
you have to love yourself unconditionally....as God loves u: as just and unjust, as good and bad, as honest and liar, as saint and sinner, as etc and etc.
Mt 5:43-48
Do you see?
Here is God speaking to you:
1 John 4:
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say,
I love God,
and
hateth his brother,
he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Or,
if a man say,
I love God as straight,
and
I hate my bro as gay,
he is a liar when He says He loves God,
since all he is saying is that IF God were gay he wd hate God:
so true enough, he hates his brother as he wd hate God IF God were the least of these gays.
Or,
if a man say,
I love my brother as gay,
and
hates God as gay,
he is a liar when he says he loves his brother,
since....for the same reasons as above.
with unconditional Love for me as str8 and as gay so I can love God as all gays and all str8 and as any of the least of these,Mt 25:35-45
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| george wrote: |
......
| Quote: | | If God were homosexual, He would not be God. |
Wow! Does your God have to be heterosexual to be God??? Should we even contemplate the orientation of Jesus? Based on Revelations 14:4, it seems to me that Christians would practice celibacy if they desired true spirituality. |
Good thinking, George, on conditional Love when it comes to gay or str8.
Now,
based on that,
you would also love God if he were not celibate, right?
with Unconditional for me as God unconditionally loves me so I auto love Him back unconditionally as I unconditionally love myself,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | I try not to get in to irrelevant and outlandish hypotheticals.
Would you love God if he were made of green cheese?
Please |
Mike!smile
You are a man of such obviously impeccable knowledge of God's Own Hypotheticals that the above words 'irrelevant' and 'outlandish' are simply reflectionas of how outlandishly busy you have been---of recent irrelevant date!smile
So I know that that 'please' was an unconsciously evoked plea to me to elaborate!smile
So as in redirect cross-examination,smile
how about this direct Hypo from God?smile
1 John 4:
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say,
I love God,
and
hateth his brother,
he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Or paraphrased as:
if a man say,
I love God as straight,
and
I hate his bro as gay,
he is a liar when He says He loves God,
since all he is saying is that IF God were gay he wd hate God:
so true enough, he hates his brother as he wd hate God IF God were the least of these gays.
By the way,
if God were made of green cheese is a very good off-the-cuff hypo, worthy of God himself who made both green and cheese and the moon,
I wd love him as the moon
and wd love the moon as him,
and would love him as the Man in the Moon!smile
With the unhypothetical Love that loves God
IF & INASMUCH AS He were the first & greatest of these,
and/or
IF & INASMUCH AS He were the last & least of those,
Mt 25:35-45, Revelation 1:8
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone have the condition on their Love for God:
that God has to be ONLY male?
Or,
that God has to be ONLY female?
Genesis 1:
26And God said,
Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and
let them have dominion
over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air,
and over the cattle,
and over all the earth,
and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them.
Since God created us male and female in His image and likeness,
then did God and does God first have to be both female and male wrapped up in His One being to make us female and male like him?
Comments requested after reading Mt 25:35-45.smile
with unconditional Love for God under all conditions and opposite conditions,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
gen1:27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them.
rom1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If G-d was homosexual he would have never wanted to create the other sex, He would have equipped Adam with the necessary biology to reproduce without the opposite sex. Seriously, what kind of question is this?
_________________
'Satan' is only real to those who don't want to admit their own personal failings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Towshab,
Yep. Jews aren't confused about how God views homosexuality. Funny how Christians are.
Makes you wonder who knows God better.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6108
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's not particularly valid to take towshab's stance on the original question and apply it to what he thinks of homosexuality in general.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FFT,
Hoping Towshab is in your camp?
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
