WAS JESUS RESURRECTED? DEBATE

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

Yes brother,

The resurrected will be immaterial because Paul said in 1 Corinthains 15:50 "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God"; therefore, Paul, who believed Jesus rose, said "the Last Adam was a life giving spirit" after Jesus rose because the Ampified Bible of 1 Corinthains 15:45 does not only say "the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit", but also goes on to say directly " [restoring the dead to life]" proving that Jesus after he rose was a spirit.

However, Jesus denied to be a spirit or equal unto angels after he rose as Jesus said "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" in Luke 24:39.

You saying "Lord has eaten food with Abraham, and that the angels ate food with Lot" or "You have stated that because Jesus ate food with His disciples after His resurrection, proves that He was not resurrected" is not my point. My point is that Jesus after he rose ASKING TWICE in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus NEEDED.

Did God or angels in the Bible ASK for food?

HeKkLeR · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:14 am Post subject:

Abdulhakeem,
do you have a problem with english? If so, I know a good translation website where I can translate my posts to whatever language would be better for you to understand.

I'm serious in asking this, because you seem to be reading something very totally wrong. If it is not because of language problems, then what is it? God just does not want you to understand the truth, or what? Question

This is very interesting for me.

But, I will not give up on you, for perhaps there was a higher reason for you to even ask for such a debate about the resurrection of Christ.

So, I pray for even more patience with you on my part. I will take things a bit slower for you.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:23 am Post subject:

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

-Can we agree that "(an individual personality)" is given as a definition for "living being"?

Yes

-Can we agree that "(Christ)" is given as a definition for "the last Adam"?
Yes

-Can we agree that "[Restoring the dead to life]" is given as a definition for "life-giving spirit"? No.

Adding "restoring the dead to life" after saying "the last Adam that is Christ was a life giving spirit" proves that Jesus after rising was a spirit.

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

CHAPTER: THE SIGN OF JONAH

Jesus gave the Jews of his time only one sign upon their request. According to the Gospel According to ST. Luke 11:29&30, Jesus said;

“This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninivites so also will the Son of Man be to this generation.”

Before explaining the sign, it is important to mention that “Christians refer to the above passage of the Bible to demonstrate Jesus’ confidence that, in his capacity as the Son of God, he would rise from the dead after his crucifixion. In the view of Christianity, this prophecy is one of the various Biblical signs that establish the truth of Jesus Christ. Well, how could Jesus Christ have known that he would come out of the “heart of the earth” after being buried in the open and airy tomb of Joseph of Arimathea? Whether he was the Son of God, as Christians believe, or a prophet, as Muslims believe, or an enlightened Buddha, as Buddhists believe, if it is assumed that he was some kind of great, spiritually endowed person, then it is not surprising that he may have received some kind of premonition or even direct verbal revelation from God that he would be “resurrected”.”

Please understand that the word “sign” of Jonah in Luke 11:29 & 30 means “miracle” of Jonah. As a result, New International Version uses first “miraculous sign” then uses “sign” synonymously.

Therefore, the sign was the miraculous sign of Jonah. So what happened to Jonah must happen to Jesus so that the prophecy is fulfilled. Therefore, one needs to read the four short chapters of the book of Jonah to see the sign of Jonah, which Jesus promised to perform.

Coming to the sign of Jonah, the sign is hereunder;

God asked Jonah to warn the city of Nineveh, but he tried to escape from God command by taking a boat from the city of Joppa heading to Tarrshesh. When Jonah was the ship with others, God sent a violent storm, which threatened the ship and its people. So they cast the lots to know who the cause of the storm was. And it was Jonah, the cause of the storm.

Now the miraculous sign of Jonah begins;
Jonah 1:12 "Pick me up and throw me into the sea," he replied, "and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this great storm has come upon you."

Jonah 1:14 "Then they cried to the LORD, "O LORD, please do not let us die for taking this man's life. Do not hold us accountable for killing an innocent man, for you, O LORD, have done as you pleased."

Jonah 1:15 "Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm."

Jonah 1:17 "But the LORD provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights."

According to Jonah 1:12, Jonah asked the people on the ship to throw him onto the sea, so was Jonah dead or alive? Of course, Jonah was alive.

WHEN YOU THROW A PERSON ONTO A RAGING SEA, DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE ALIVE OR DEAD?
Of course, he must be dead. And because of that the people on the ship were afraid of letting Jonah die in the sea (Jonah 1:14).

WHEN JONAH WAS THROWN ONTO THE SEA, WAS HE DEAD OR ALIVE?
He was alive. When Jonah was thrown onto the sea, “The LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights” according to Jonah 1:17.

“Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly” according to Jonah 2:1.

WHEN A PERSON SWALLOWED BY A WHALE, DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE ALIVE OR DEAD?
Of course, he must be dead.

WAS JONAH ALIVE INSIDE THE FISH?
Of course he was alive. Otherwise, how Jonah could pray inside the fish as Jonah 2:1 says.

So then the fish vomited Jonah out into dry land.

WHEN A PERSON IS VOMITED AFTER THREE NIGHTS AND DAYS OUT OF A WHALE, DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE ALIVE OR DEAD?
Of course, he must be dead.

Then God asked Jonah to go again and preach the city of Nineveh.

DOES GOD ASK DEAD PEOPLE LIKE JONAH TO PREACH OTHERS?
No, God does not. So Jonah was alive.

This is the miracle of Jonah that Jesus promised to perform. The sign of Jonah is indeed a miracle in which three miracles are inside. You expect Jonah to die first time when he was thrown onto the sea, but he remained alive. Then you expect him to die again inside the fish, but he remained alive praying to God for rescue. Lastly, you expect him to die when the fish vomited him out but he remained alive.

So the sign of Jonah is that Jonah remained alive unexpectedly when Jonah was thrown onto the sea, continued to be living unexpectedly inside the fish, and continued to live unexpectedly when he was vomited out of the fish.

Now Jesus promised that what happened to Jonah must happen to him.

SO HOW WAS JESUS ON THE CROSS? WAS HE DEAD OR ALIVE?
According to the sign of Jonah Jesus gave, he must be alive in order to fulfill it.

ONCE AGAIN, HOW WAS JESUS IN THE TOMB? WAS HE DEAD OR ALIVE?
According to the sign of Jonah Jesus gave, he must be alive in order to fulfill it.

LAST HOW WAS JESUS WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE TOMB? WAS HE DEAD OR ALIVE?
According to the sign of Jonah Jesus gave, he must be alive in order to fulfill it.

Saying that the miracle of Jonah that Jesus promised to do is Jesus coming out alive from the whale’s belly as Jonah did is a part of the sign that Jesus promised but not the whole sign because Jonah coming out of the fish alive was the last part of the miracle. The miracle of Jonah is of three parts. There are still two parts of the miracle of Jonah. The first, Jonah remained alive when thrown onto the raging sea. The second, Jonah was alive inside the fish. The third, Jonah came alive after vomited by the fish.

MIRACLOUS TIMING FACTOR

There is nothing miraculous about Jesus being in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights as Jonah was for the same period inside the fish for the following reasons;

1- Had the timing factor been important and miraculous, the author of Luke would have mentioned it. However, the author did not mention any thing about the timing factor.

2- Had the timing factor been what the sign of Jonah that Jesus was about, Jesus would have failed in fulfilling the prophecy he gave because Jesus promised to be for three days and three nights. However, Jesus was in the tomb for two days and two nights between Friday night and Sunday morning.

1st Night is Friday Night in which Jesus inside the tomb

1st Day is Saturday Morning in which Jesus was inside

2nd Night is Saturday Night in which Jesus was still inside

2nd Day is Sunday Morning in which Jesus was outside the tomb

So practically Jesus was in the tomb for one day and two nights.

Jesus did not reckon any part of the whole day as one day because Jesus defined the day as 24 four hours period divided into 12 hours for night and another 12 hours for day for five reasons;

1- Had Jesus wanted to define the day as any part of the whole day, he would not have been specific when he divided the days into three days and three nights as Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

2- Jesus defined the day as 24 four hours period divided into 12 hours for night and another 12 hours for day according to Jesus in John 11:9 when Jesus said to the disciples “Are not there twelve hours of daytime?”

3- The Bible defines the day as 24 four hours period made of night and day according to Genesis 1:5 “There was evening and there was morning, one day.”

4- Booking a room in a hotel for three days can mean to stay for one day and two days.

5- However, booking a room in a hotel for three days and three nights cannot mean to stay for one day and two nights in any language and in any country or culture.

Matthew 12:40 “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

GOOD WEDENSAY OR GOOD FRIDAY

While mainstream Christianity believes Jesus was crucified on GOOD FRIDAY, there has started a new trend which insists that Jesus was crucified on GOOD WEDNESDAY, so the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 12:40 will fulfill;

1-“Jesus Wasn't Crucified on Friday—or Resurrected on Sunday! > The Good News : March/April 2006”

2-“Prophecy Truths -- The Good Friday Myth, Jesus Died on a Wednesday!!”

3-“The Myth of Good Friday-Easter Sunday Exposed! How Long Was Jesus Christ in the Grave?”

4-“In Defense of a Wednesday Crucifixion”

5-Jesus Christ was NOT Crucified on "Good Friday"

6-The Myth of "Good Friday"

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:55 am Post subject:

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

Luke, a medical doctor by profession and inspired by God, said in Acts 1:3 "After He had SUFFERED, He also presented Himself ALIVE to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during 40 days and speaking about the kingdom of God."

Jesus when reappearing to the disicples, Jesus was ALIVE AFTER HE HAD SUFFERED NOT AFTER HE DIED according to an inspired medical professional named Luke in Acts 1:3.

Luke in Acts 1:3 was just confirming what Jesus said after he rose in Luke 24:46 "The Scriptures say that the Messiah must suffer, then three days later he will rise rom death."

the Greek word of "suffering" is " Pascho" which is used by Jesus in Luke 24:46 and Acts 1:3 means " to be affected or have been affected" according to the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon. Therefore, "suffering" or "Pascho" means only undergoing pain not death the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:58 am Post subject:

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:04 am Post subject:

This is supposed to be a One on One Debate.

Not a propaganda toilet.

If that is the best that you can do, then I have no further interest in 'debating' you, for you have no clue of debate, and no clue of the truth.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:28 am Post subject:

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

Dear brother,

Did angels or the Lord ask for food? is a question I asked and I deserve an answer.

The phrase which Jesus used in Luke 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" is a phrase taken from Psalm 31:5 FOLLOWED BY "RESCUE ME" in Psalm 31:5 proving that the phrase "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" does not mean death.

Jesus giving up his spirit is true because the Gospels teach Jesus gave up the spirit, which is a biblical phrase that means going unconscious as shown when the daughter of Jairus gave up her spirit as "her spirit returned and rose" in Luke 8:55though she did not die before her rising as Jesus said "stop wailing for she is not dead, but sleeping" in Luke 8:52.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

Abdulhakeem · Little Hamster Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 78

Dear brother,

Jesus after he rose was not equal unto angels because Jesus ASKING FOOD AFTER HE ROSE in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus was in need of food ; therefore, JEsus was mortal and not resurrected. The angels never asked for food.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject:

** The HeKkLeR steps down from the podium, and heads toward a pizza shop to get some pepperoni pizza... with extra, extra pepperoni. Never to return.

His last audibly heard sentence:

"Why, the insolent [inaudible]... how dare he attempt to [inaudible]...[inaudible] me? I'm out of here. Nobby, this is ended... [inaudible]"

**