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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Knowing that Paul was speaking to a non-Jewish audience when Paul himself said 1 Corinthians 15:50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" then the term "flesh and blood" means literally "flesh and blood." As a result, Paul believed Jesus "the Last Adam was an everlasting spirit" in 1 Corinthians 15:45 after he rose.
You saying "The passage (1 Corinthians 15:45) is not speaking of the resurrected body" because the passage, which is 1 Corinthians 15:45, explains 1 Corinthians 15:44 as can be seen from the phrase " And so it is written" at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 right after 1 Corinthians 15:44 proving 1 Corinthians 15:45 is to explains 1 Corinthians 15:44.
The example of the physical body in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is the first Adam, was a living soul in 1 Corinthians 15:45. Therefore, the living soul requires food and drink to survive. The example of the resurrected body, which is spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44, is the last Adam, was a spirit in 1 Corinthians 15:45.
You saying "Jesus was resurrected not with blood in Him, but with the Spirit of God in Him" is wrong because Jesus asking food after he rose according to Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food and his body was still natural; therefore, Jesus was mortal and flesh and blood because 1 Corinthians 15:44 says "It is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body." Jesus was filled with the spirit of God even from the time Jesus was filled with the Spirit of God as Luke 4:1-2 say "Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit." |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | Knowing that Paul was speaking to a non-Jewish audience when Paul himself said 1 Corinthians 15:50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" then the term "flesh and blood" means literally "flesh and blood." As a result, Paul believed Jesus "the Last Adam was an everlasting spirit" in 1 Corinthians 15:45 after he rose. |
Wrong on several parts:
1) | Paul wrote: | 1 Corinthians 1:11 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. |
2) "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;" Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
"the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." Matthew 1:20-21 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
3) You err because you do not understand the scriptures correctly.
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | You saying "The passage (1 Corinthians 15:45) is not speaking of the resurrected body" because the passage, which is 1 Corinthians 15:45, explains 1 Corinthians 15:44 as can be seen from the phrase " And so it is written" at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 right after 1 Corinthians 15:44 proving 1 Corinthians 15:45 is to explains 1 Corinthians 15:44. |
Wrong. Why would Paul state "And so it is written" about what he just wrote? When Paul used the phrase "And so it is written", he was referring to as it is written in Scripture.  Just as I have shown you what Scripture states about it, above.
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | The example of the physical body in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is the first Adam, was a living soul in 1 Corinthians 15:45. Therefore, the living soul requires food and drink to survive. The example of the resurrected body, which is spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44, is the last Adam, was a spirit in 1 Corinthians 15:45. |
The natural body that is spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is speaking of the body where life is in the blood.
The spiritual body spoken of is the resurrected body where life is in the Spirit.
John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and He that believeth on Me shall never thirst.
Revelation 7:16-17They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
There is no need to eat food with the resurrected body. It is sustained by the Spirit of God. But everything is possible with God. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | You saying "Jesus was resurrected not with blood in Him, but with the Spirit of God in Him" is wrong because Jesus asking food after he rose according to Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food and his body was still natural; therefore, Jesus was mortal and flesh and blood because 1 Corinthians 15:44 says "It is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body." |
Wrong. You really need to read the definition of the word "proves", for you use it ever so wrongly, every time I have read you use it.
The only thing that you have proven, is your ignorance of the scriptures.
Luke 24:37-45But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And He said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have.
40 And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And He took it, and did eat before them.
44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.
45 Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Everything that Jesus did in those passages, were done for the good of His disciples; that is, so that they would believe in Him and gain understanding of the truth.
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | Jesus was filled with the spirit of God even from the time Jesus was filled with the Spirit of God as Luke 4:1-2 say "Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit." |
Yes. In the Luke 4:1-2 passage, Jesus was in the flesh of man, which relied on blood for sustenance. This was before His blood was shed.
In the Luke 24:37-45 passage, Jesus was in the resurrected body, which contained no blood, but the Spirit of God for sustenance. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Abdulhakeem,
While you put your faith in the silly cut&paste arguments that you get from some antichrist website... even so much as to debate the stuff with those who have read and study the entire Holy Bible... it would really help you out if you at least read only the chapters from which the 1 & 2 line verses used in your silly cut&paste arguments are not used in context with the truth of scripture.
That way, you could use your own judgment in presenting the arguments... instead of just throwing them out there as proof... only to find out that you look very silly for even cut&pasting that kind of garbage, that an unlearned and unread silly person before you even took the time to write, in the first place. 
Just a helpful hint for you to chew on... 
... bring it on... |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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You saying "When Paul used the phrase "And so it is written", he was referring to as it is written in" is also true but also Paul using "AND SO" in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 proves 1 Corinthians 15:45 is an example of what the non-resurrected is and what the resurrected is like.
The non-resurrected is natural and physical opposite to the resurrected, which is spiritual; spirit according to New Living Translation, which is recommended by you. 1 Corinthians 15:44 of the New Living Translation says "They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies." The NLT usage of "BUT" in 1 Corinthians 15:44 between the natural and spiritual bodies proves they are the opposite.
You saying "The natural body that is spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is speaking of the body where life is in the blood" is true a thing which Jesus was proving by saying to the disciples "Behold my hand and my feet" after he rose in Luke 24:39 in order to prove that he was physical and natural therefore he was not spiritual nor resurrected because the resurrected will be spiritual the opposite of the physical according to 1 Corinthians 154:44 " They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies." The NLT usage of "BUT" in 1 Corinthians 15:44 between the natural and spiritual bodies prove they are the opposite.
Jesus went on to prove that his body was not changed; therefore, it was not transformed by saying to the disciples "handle me and see it I myself" meaning he was still with the same body that he had prior to being nailed onto the cross.
You saying "The spiritual body spoken of is the resurrected body where life is in the Spirit" is false because the bodies of Elizabeth and Peter, and the disciples had the Spirit though they were not resurrected.
You saying "There is no need to eat food with the resurrected body" is true however, Jesus asking food twice after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food. Therefore, Jesus was not resurrected.
You saying "In the Luke 24:37-45 passage, Jesus was in the resurrected body, which contained no blood, but the Spirit of God for sustenance" is refuted by Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proving he was physical not spiritual therefore Jesus was not resurrected because he was still physical and the resurrected will be spiritual the opposite of the physical as 1 Corinthians 15:44 says " They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies."
Jesus using the phrase "flesh and bone" in Luke 24:39after he rose proves Jesus was still mortal because the phrase "flesh and bone" in the Bible is used for mortal beings. For instance, When God used the phrase "strike his flesh and bones" of Job, Job was mortal; therefore, Jesus was mortal when Jesus used the phrase "flesh and bones" in Luke 24:39after he rose. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | You saying "When Paul used the phrase "And so it is written", he was referring to as it is written in" is also true but also Paul using "AND SO" in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 proves 1 Corinthians 15:45 is an example of what the non-resurrected is and what the resurrected is like. |
Wrong. You have been proven wrong above.
As for the rest. You are Wrong again. And have been proven wrong above, and also here:
1 Corinthians 15:39-40 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It has been shown to you before.
But you keep re-lying on the lie that you keep stating:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | 1 Corinthians 15:45 is an example of what the non-resurrected is and what the resurrected is like. |
Here it is again for you: 1 Corinthians 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Again, this verse is not speaking of the resurrected body. The verse very specifically states the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. It does not say was raised a quickening spirit, but, according to scripture, He was made a quickening spirit (from His birth on Earth). Just as the first Adam was made a living soul.
Scripture states that the resurrected will be raised in spiritual bodies. Men were made living souls, we are granted eternal life in the spirit of Christ, who was made a life giving spirit, died on the cross, and raised as the firstborn from the dead in a resurrected body filled with the Spirit of God.
What you fail to understand, is that Jesus Christ was resurrected with a spiritual body that contains no blood, while Lazarus and all others before Him were raised from the dead, with their natural bodies which contained blood. Therefore, Jesus was not only raised from the dead with a natural body of flesh and bone and blood like those before Him, but the first to be resurrected with a spiritual body of flesh and bone.
Spirits alone, do not have blood, and do not have bodies of flesh and bone. But Jesus reconciled the spirit and the body of flesh and bone into a new man. That was also explained to you earlier with the Ephesians passages. |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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You saying "It does not say was raised a quickening spirit" is refuted by two reasons;
1-Ampified Bible, which exists in the recommended site you gave me at www.bibles.net, reads 1 Corinthians 15:45 "Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]"
2- "AND SO" in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 proves that 1Corinthians 15:45 is connected to 1 Corinthians 15:44 giving examples of the non-resurrected physical versus the resurrected spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44.
You saying "Scripture states that the resurrected will be raised in spiritual bodies" is true because 1 Corinthians 15:44 says "it is raised a spiritual body" which is a spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the last Adam became a life giving spirit" after he rose as "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" according to 1 Corinthians 15:50.
You saying "Jesus Christ was resurrected with a spiritual body that contains no blood" is wrong because Jesus body needed food as Jesus asked for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 ; therefore, Jesus body even after he rose was with blood and flesh. Therefore, Jesus was not resurrected. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | You saying "It does not say was raised a quickening spirit" is refuted by two reasons;
1-Ampified Bible, which exists in the recommended site you gave me at www.bibles.net, reads 1 Corinthians 15:45 "Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]"
2- "AND SO" in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 proves that 1Corinthians 15:45 is connected to 1 Corinthians 15:44 giving examples of the non-resurrected physical versus the resurrected spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44. |
Wrong yet again, Abdul. I asked that you try reading what is written, and not reading into what is written. 1 Corinthians 15:45 in the Amplified Bible states, "restoring the dead to life" as a definition of what a life-giving spirit is. It does not say "restored to life from the dead".
"Restoring the dead to life" means a "life-giving spirit" or "quickening spirit".
No matter how you try your best to read it wrong, it is you who are wrong in your understanding.
| Quote: | | You saying "Scripture states that the resurrected will be raised in spiritual bodies" is true because 1 Corinthians 15:44 says "it is raised a spiritual body" which is a spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the last Adam became a life giving spirit" after he rose as "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" according to 1 Corinthians 15:50. |
You have surely lied here, have you not, Abdul? That is not what the Amplified Bible says, is it? You surely added in the "after he rose", correct?
It just is not written in the bible at all, is it? Yet, you keep suggesting that it is. Who do you think keeps telling you that, if it is surely not written in God's word? 
| Quote: | | You saying "Jesus Christ was resurrected with a spiritual body that contains no blood" is wrong because Jesus body needed food as Jesus asked for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 ; therefore, Jesus body even after he rose was with blood and flesh. Therefore, Jesus was not resurrected. |
That is surely another lie, is it not? Can you show me scripture where it states that Jesus needed food to sustain His body?
No. You cannot. That is a lie that you and non believers like yourself have concocted due to no true understanding of scriptures, is it not?
I already addressed that in my previous post, anyway. 
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | 1-Ampified Bible, which exists in the recommended site you gave me at www.bibles.net, |
Wrong again! On even such an easy thing! That is surely not the site that I recommended to you!
You seem to have a serious problem proclaiming the truth, even when the truth is written so even a child can understand it.
But, I fore give your contempt for the truth.  |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
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They are surely not the same website because they both have the Amplified Bible online.
See? That is the same problem we are having on topic. You are not presenting the truth as your arguments. You are presenting clever go-arounds in hope to frustrate the truth.
It just aint gonna happen. |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Brother,
They are the same because if you go to bibles.net and click on New International Version, it will direct you to http://www.biblegateway.com site. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Please excuse my lack of intelligence... but if they were the same site, then there would be no reason for a re-direction to a site with a different name, no?
And I had no idea that the website "bibles.net" even existed. And I have no idea where you got that website from. So then again, No, it is not the site I recommended in the first place, nor at all... not ever. Stick with the truth, brother, and you will see the light.  |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| My point is that Ampified Bible, which exists in the recommended site you gave me at www.biblegateway.com, reads 1 Corinthians 15:45 "Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]" proving that 1 Corinthains 15:45 describes 1 Corinthains 14:44 as can be seen from "Thus it is written" in the beginning of 1 Corinthains 15:45. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is nice that you quoted the whole wrong piece again, Abdul. How about addressing the point that you were wrong in writing it in the first place?
You know... that stuff that I posted to refute it? |
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