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dattaswami1
Big Guppy
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 47
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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: If you are not contented already, you will not be contented |
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If you are not contented already, you will not be contented always
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also
Satisfaction is very important in Pravrutti (worldly activities), if you are satisfied with
What you have already, God always likes to give you more and more.
If you are not contented already, - you will not be contented always.
There is no use of giving more to you since you will ask more again.
In Nivrutti (loving service to Jesus), no satisfaction at all, as you see in singing about God.
You derive continuous happiness directly in His wonderful memory.
Why should you ask something through devotion to get happiness?
That worldly item asked by you is giving illusion of happiness only.
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also.
A mirage never contained or will never contain water, it has no water
Even now, the water seen by you in the present is only an illusion.
If memory of God gives such happiness, - think about co-living with Him!
Bliss comes directly from God, - no brokerage of worldly items in middle.
Hence, pray God with the desire of God only and not with other desires.
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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dattaswami1 wrote:
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You derive continuous happiness directly in His wonderful memory.
Why should you ask something through devotion to get happiness?
That worldly item asked by you is giving illusion of happiness only.
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also. |
What if you are asking for something not "worldly?" |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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seldom does he respond to responses...sometimes..but rarely...  |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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oh......like a public service announcement..........
they should be done, but nobody really gives a hoot.......
That's too bad. We could have some interesting interaction here. Guess I'll skip the next couple. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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oh but at least try...sometimes ...if you try hard...one can get him to speak to them..
but we are speaking of the great dataswami...
you must understand this... |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) in NT |
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Namaste Dattaswami
Q1. I was looking at http://www.themonastery.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3850and saw a link to http://www.universal-spirituality.org/but could not open it. Can you tell us something about Universal Spirituality? Is it Christian, or Hindu, or both? 
Q2. Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) are Sanskrit terms from Hinduism, but I am not sure that those words, in their Hindi forms, are found in the Hindi or other Indian Bibles. Could you say whether that is so?
God bless
Steven
| dattaswami1 wrote: | If you are not contented already, you will not be contented always
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also
Satisfaction is very important in Pravrutti (worldly activities), if you are satisfied with
What you have already, God always likes to give you more and more.
If you are not contented already, - you will not be contented always.
There is no use of giving more to you since you will ask more again.
In Nivrutti (loving service to Jesus), no satisfaction at all, as you see in singing about God.
You derive continuous happiness directly in His wonderful memory.
Why should you ask something through devotion to get happiness?
That worldly item asked by you is giving illusion of happiness only.
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also.
A mirage never contained or will never contain water, it has no water
Even now, the water seen by you in the present is only an illusion.
If memory of God gives such happiness, - think about co-living with Him!
Bliss comes directly from God, - no brokerage of worldly items in middle.
Hence, pray God with the desire of God only and not with other desires.
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_________________
Jo5:26 The Father ... has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Ro6:10 the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
2Co13:4 he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. |
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dattaswami1
Big Guppy
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | dattaswami1 wrote:
| Quote: |
You derive continuous happiness directly in His wonderful memory.
Why should you ask something through devotion to get happiness?
That worldly item asked by you is giving illusion of happiness only.
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also. |
What if you are asking for something not "worldly?" |
When the child cries for the milk, the mother does not mistake the child for its desire for the milk because the love should be without desire. The same mother (if wise) will mistake her grown up daughter asking for her ornaments because ornaments are not the basic needs like the milk. The wise mother will say that she will give the ornaments after her death. But the same mother will not say that the milk in her breast will be given to the child after her death because the dead body cannot give the milk and moreover the child cannot wait for the milk for a long time. Similarly, God will not mistake the pure soul asking for the basic needs of the life especially when the soul is in the divine service.
For mother the cry of the child is needed because the mother is not always omniscient like God. But God is omniscient and knows the basic requirement of the devoted soul and will give the basic needs even without the cry. Yet, the mother experiences the love in giving the milk to a crying child. Similarly, the God experiences love when you cry for the basic needs to be granted by God. There is no necessity for cry in the case of God but after all the cry gives the experience of love. Moreover, the soul should not think that God would grant the basic needs like the salary given by the employer to his service. In the case of God, the service to God itself is the salary and there cannot be salary for taking the salary!
Nivrutti (Spiritual field) is quite opposite to Pravrutti (Materialistic field). When the soul is pure and deserves a favor, God desires the devotee to ask Him like an innocent child to enjoy the love. God takes pleasure in fulfilling the desire when the child asks for it. A crying child for milk is not equal to a crying prostitute to snatch away your property, since property is not a basic need. A fool does not distinguish the basic needs and property. A foolish mother will give away her ornaments to her daughter like the milk from her breast and will end in trouble because the son-in-law will force the daughter to kick out her mother since the ornaments were already received. When the devotee is in the service of the divine mission, to pray God for basic needs is not wrong because the basic needs are essential to maintain the body and family.
Such request is not the extra worldly desire and it is a part of the divine mission only. Jesus asked God to favor Him on several occasions but each favor was a part of the divine mission only. By begging the God for food, the inherent traces of ego induced through Advaita Philosophy will also disappear.
God also tastes the sweet love in such prayer. |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) in NT |
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| Steven3 wrote: | Namaste Dattaswami
Q1. I was looking at http://www.themonastery.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3850and saw a link to http://www.universal-spirituality.org/but could not open it. Can you tell us something about Universal Spirituality? Is it Christian, or Hindu, or both?
Q2. Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) are Sanskrit terms from Hinduism, but I am not sure that those words, in their Hindi forms, are found in the Hindi or other Indian Bibles. Could you say whether that is so?
God bless
Steven
| dattaswami1 wrote: | If you are not contented already, you will not be contented always
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also
Satisfaction is very important in Pravrutti (worldly activities), if you are satisfied with
What you have already, God always likes to give you more and more.
If you are not contented already, - you will not be contented always.
There is no use of giving more to you since you will ask more again.
In Nivrutti (loving service to Jesus), no satisfaction at all, as you see in singing about God.
You derive continuous happiness directly in His wonderful memory.
Why should you ask something through devotion to get happiness?
That worldly item asked by you is giving illusion of happiness only.
Worldly items start and end with sorrow, they give sorrow in middle also.
A mirage never contained or will never contain water, it has no water
Even now, the water seen by you in the present is only an illusion.
If memory of God gives such happiness, - think about co-living with Him!
Bliss comes directly from God, - no brokerage of worldly items in middle.
Hence, pray God with the desire of God only and not with other desires.
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Hello Dattaswami
This was the question I PMed you saying I had posted. You have responded to Eleven above, would you also like to respond to my post?
Thank you
Steven
_________________
Jo5:26 The Father ... has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Ro6:10 the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
2Co13:4 he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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i tried to tell you already...the great dataswami responds or not as he alone sees fit...
he may show you mercy and answer you....sometimes he does not...sometimes he does...
either way, his decision is for your own good...
plus you did not say please...
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dattaswami1
Big Guppy
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) in NT |
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| Steven3 wrote: | Namaste Dattaswami
/but could not open it. Can you tell us something about Universal Spirituality? Is it Christian, or Hindu, or both?
Q2. Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) are Sanskrit terms from Hinduism, but I am not sure that those words, in their Hindi forms, are found in the Hindi or other Indian Bibles. Could you say whether that is so?
God bless
Steven
] |
My main aim to propagate the divine knowledge
On this earth is Universal Spirituality
For World Peace, because there should not be difference
Based on the religion, two people should not fight
For the sake of Nivrutti, which is reaching the Lord.
Nivrutti is related to Lord and is very sacred.
Should one stab another for the sake of this?
In India have you not heard of a Muslim stabbing Hindu
And vice-versa just for the sake of religion?
There is meaning if two fight for wealth etc.,
Which is Pravrutti, Pandavas and Kauravas fought
With each other for wealth, it is justified
Both belong to the same Hindu religion
They did not fight for the religion
It is shameful for the Lord to see such fights!
The same Lord is in two different dresses.
And you both are fighting for the difference in the dress!
You are not recognizing that the same teacher came
And taught the same syllabus in two different languages.
To one class He came in red shirt and to another class
He came in white shirt, you are fighting for His shirts!
You are fighting for the two languages, which differ.
The teacher is the same and the syllabus is the same.
You sit and analyze the contents of His teaching.
You treat the teacher as your Master in your section.
Is He not the Master for the other section also?
Both the sections constitute the whole school.
You say that He is the Master of the whole school.
The school consists off two distinct sections vividly.
If you say that He is the Master of the whole school,
The school must contain only your section, then only
Your statement is right, but the school shows two sections.
Your statements are contradicting each other clearly.
Hindus say that Brahman is the creator, Muslims say
That Allah is creator, Christians say that the creator is
Jehovah, all say that the creation is this entire world.
If Hindus say that Brahman created India, and if
Muslims say that Allah created Arabian countries and
If Christians say that Jehovah created the western countries,
The problem is solved, there can be three Gods together,
Who have created the three parts of the earth separately.
But this is not so, each religion says that their God only
Created the entire world, unfortunately there is one world!
One world only! Come on, all of you sit together here
And give me the final conclusion after debate, otherwise,
The scientists are laughing on all of you! Shame to all!
They criticize that these religions do not have even
The basic logic, which is the fundamental common sense.
Because of you, the greatest God is also mocked by them
They say that the religions are rigid conservatisms!
Even a small boy is putting this question to all of you.
Stop all your discourses and first answer this question.
If you want to say that God created the entire world,
You have to accept that there is one God only always
And that His names are all the above three names.
We see in the world a single person having three names.
If there is one God, He only created this entire world.
All the human beings are invariably His children only.
No Father is partial to a single child and therefore
He must have preached the same knowledge to all
In different languages and in different methodologies
To different levels, this is Universal Spirituality.
I find Christians trying to convert Hindus in India.
Similarly Hindus are trying to convert Christians in West.
Do you think that Hinduism and Christianity are two
Different political parties to rule the spiritual kingdom?
These conversions then become very much essential,
Because the ruling party must have a clear majority.
Jesus said that majority of people are traveling
On a very wide high way that leads to hell! He also told
That the way to Him is very narrow with few people only!
Krishna told that one in millions can only reach Him!
Both Jesus and Krishna speak about qualitative minority
And not about useless quantitative majority, realize this.
If you analyze, both philosophies are one and the same.
Buddhism is an offspring of Hinduism, both are same.
Buddha is the incarnation of Vishnu, God of Hinduism.
Islam and Christianity are separated just on one point only.
Islam treats the prophet as messenger of God, Christianity
Treats the prophet as son of God or God Himself also.
Hinduism contains all these three views of the same point.
Whether the prophet is the messenger or the son of God
Or God Himself, think, how does it matter as far as
The message of God is concerned? Since God is same
And His message is also the same. Whether God says
Or His son says or His messenger says, no difference,
In all the three cases it is the message of God only.
Unable to practice the message of God, all of you are
Quarreling seriously on unnecessary immaterial point!
Let all the human beings on this earth recognise one God,
Let them recognise the only one path that is sacrifice,
Let them recognise themselves created by the same God
And therefore they are brothers and sisters in this world.
Let there not be stabbings of brothers for the sake of God.
Let there not be wars based on religious differences. |
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dattaswami1
Big Guppy
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) in NT |
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| Steven3 wrote: | Namaste Dattaswami
Q2. Pravrutti (desire) and Nivrutti (dispassion) are Sanskrit terms from Hinduism, but I am not sure that those words, in their Hindi forms, are found in the Hindi or other Indian Bibles. Could you say whether that is so?
God bless
Steven
[] |
Dear Steve i will explain about Pravrutti and Nivrutti
Meaning of Pravrutti (Path of Justice)
In this, people desire the welfare of their body and family. They love their bodies and their families only. Their real love is not on the God but only on their body and family. When that welfare is disturbed and when it is not possible to rectify it by worldly means, then only they look at God. When you get fever and it is not subsided by the medicines you used, then you are approaching a doctor. Thus God is only an instrument to achieve the welfare of their body and family. They pretend real love on God, which is not real. When you go to the doctor you respect him too much. That respect is not real. That respect is only apparent and the aim of that respect is only that he will cure carefully your disease. These people do not bother about tomorrow.
They dont bother about the hell after death and about the next birth. Their aim is only the temporary happiness confined to this birth only. They worship God for this purpose, which is not true love at all. God also acts accordingly. He postpones all your bad results to the next births like pro-notes with increased interest. He brings the good results from future births with reduced values like the pre-matured deposits.
The Lord will not save these people in the hell. They will go to the heaven and when the results of their good deeds are finished, they are thrown back to the earth. In the future births, which are full of difficulties only, these people weep scolding the Lord. But the Lord keeps silent, because He acted according to their prayers only in the previous birth. In this field one can worship the Lord with single face, the embodiment of Sattvam(GOOD) quality.
With this quality God will help you when you worship. But this quality always requires justice and logic. Therefore, within the rules of the cycle of justice God helps you. He will never harm you for your worship. In this field God in human form is not necessary. God will protect the justice by His power. In this field the aim of the people is not God. Their aim is only protection of justice and their families. Lord Krishna did not fight directly in the war because in this field His power is sufficient to protect the justice. Arjuna was charged with His power and Arjuna fought with the enemies. In this field the devotees can worship formless God or statues and can get apparent and temporary protection in this world.
Meaning of Nivrutti (Path of Liberation)
In this field people want God only. Their aim is the permanent association with the God and not the temporary results in this world. They never care for the worldly justice. They dont care for their body or family bonds. Their concentration is always on God. Here the justice is also crossed. Prahlada ( A devotee of God) did not care for his fathers death. God came directly and fought with the enemy in his case. Gopikas ( female devotees) left every body and every thing for the sake of Lord Krishna. He liberated them in this world itself. God in human form was required by Gopikas and not by Arjuna. Gopikas wanted to see, touch, talk and live with the God. The Lord came in the human form as Krishna for the sake of Gopikas only.
Arjuna wanted only the power of God to protect justice by getting back the kingdom. Therefore, Arjuna worshipped statues like Siva Lingam and energetic body like Siva. Lord Krishna was an instrument for Arjuna in achieving his kingdom. The aim of Arjuna was kingdom and not Krishna. But in the case of Gopikas the aim was Krishna and not anything else or anybody else. They crossed even the traditional justice and ran to Brindavanam to dance with Krishna. They were unable to live for even one minute without Krishna. In this field of Nivrutti the Lord comes down in human form and donates Himself to the devotees. Such human form is called as Datta. In this field the Lord has all the three aspects of Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra. He shows Sattvam of Vishnu, Rajas of Brahma and Tamas of Rudra. In this field He gives troubles when you worship Him. Troubling a devotee unnecessarily is Rajas and Tamas. In this field only the real love on God is proved. When God troubles you after your worship and if you are unable to leave Him still then that is real love. Thus single face Datta (Vishnu) is for Pravrutti and three-faced Datta is for Nivrutti.
God acts according to the field you choose. In Nivrutti only He protects you from hell and takes you to His eternal abode. In this field only He attracts the evil effects of His real devotees and undergoes sufferings to save His devotees. Here the attitude of God is not logic and justice but only pure love. But real devotees oppose this. Therefore, He undergoes the bad results without their knowledge. The God circulates the information regarding Pravrutti and Nivrutti to everybody so that nobody can blame Him later on for their ignorance. Except the motto of information He is not having an intention to attract the people into Nivrutti. He is not benefited in any way by doing so. All the benefit is only for the devotee. The person following the Pravrutti always scolds the Nivrutti. The reason is that he is unable to catch God directly in Nivrutti and therefore, discourages that field with jealousy. When he is unable to succeed in that field he does not want anybody to succeed in that field. He wants to close that field and wants that his field only to remain. Such psychological jealousy is not good because God will punish him. Even though he is incapable he should appreciate others and in such case God will help him to come to Nivrutti. In nutshell God helps in Pravrutti with sympathy only and such help is only in the apparent and temporary rearrangement of your good and bad results. In Nivrutti the fruit is permanent and real and God really loves the devotees.
If you are unable to follow Nivrutti, please be in Pravrutti at least and never become an atheist. You try constantly to follow the Nivrutti. You might have not reached the goal, but you have left your station. Only a person who is always limited to Pravrutti should worry. The attitude towards Pravrutti or Nivrutti comes from the accumulated Sadhana done in several previous births. Such a person turns spontaneously towards Nivrutti and the association of Satguru is only accidental. In the pearl shell one raindrop fallen becomes the pearl. Even if 100 drops fall on mud pond, all the drops become mud water only. Therefore, the deservingness of the devotee due to previous Sadhana is the most important factor and not the close or long association with Satguru. One may sit on the seashore for several hours but he has only a small tumbler in his hand. He can take only a tumbler of water even after sitting for several hours on the seashore. A fellow may come with a pot but he takes a full pot of water in 5 minutes. The Satguru rains His divine knowledge on all the people impartially so that He should not be blamed later on. The knowledge is essential like the rain, but more essential is the deservingness of the devotee that developed based on his sincere spiritual efforts for the past several births continuously (Purva Janma Samskara). |
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