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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Rev,
I think we are at an impasse. I feel I have a good grasp on the facts here, and so do you.
I do have to compliment you on the grace you show in weathering all the invectives I threw at you. I award you extra points in this gambit for your display of maturity.
Agnus Dei |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6817
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| stmike wrote: | | I think we are at an impasse. |
Probably true, however, not for these reasons:
| Quote: | | I feel I have a good grasp on the facts here |
What I have seen in this thread and the other threads from you in this particular forum is a parroting of someone else's opinion with little regard for the facts, or any interest in exploring the truth of the matter on your own. Too much of what you say is knee-jerk partisan rhetoric, and when faced with an opposing POV containing fact and truth you have resorted to 'throwing invectives' rather than bolster your remarks with credible support.
That is fine though, you have your political opinions and choose to demean opposing opinions rather than consider the evidence they may bring to the table, by making assumptions of the person and his/her beliefs. That is your right I suppose - unproductive as it may be. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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 hmm, one extends an olive branch of peace, the other slaps it away....
| Quote: | What I have seen in this thread and the other threads from you in this particular forum is a parroting of someone else's opinion with little regard for the facts, or any interest in exploring the truth of the matter on your own. Too much of what you say is knee-jerk partisan rhetoric, and when faced with an opposing POV containing fact and truth you have resorted to 'throwing invectives' rather than bolster your remarks with credible support.
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Opposing POV containing facts and truth? 
Like this one?
| Quote: | I do some work with my Congressman and a few state legislators and I can tell you that the 'border problem' is actually quite low on the list of issues they receive mail and email about.
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...somehow being touted as ample proof that illegal immigration is not a huge issue on a national level.
Or how about your "facts" from the SPLC a completely leftist organization that supports and defends illegal behavior. You and I have a difference of opinion on what is a credible source.
| Quote: | | TUCSON, AZ -- Three volunteers patrolling the border for illegal immigrants were being investigated after a man told authorities he was held against his will and forced to pose for a picture holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan |
I think we can both agree that your report from left leaning MSNBC is as much of a spin as reports from right leaning Fox News. MSNBC won't report on how much the border patrol has benefitted from community participation and Fox News won't report on incidents like the one you adduce here. But in spite of the impression intended, the Minutemen founder Jim Gilchrist has made it clear that nobody is to take the law into their own hands. The fact that a few people disregarded this mandate is not due to a lack of effort on the MMP's part to clearly state what is and isn't allowed. The thousands assisting in this project are mostly doing the right thing so let's try to be fair, ok?
With this being an example, in spite of your claim to be the thinking, reasoning party in this fence, I find you to be just as partisan and intellectually biased....so please...get off your high horse!
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6817
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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So you continue to deny that a report was made of illegal activity, which was, and is, the concern of the President and others?
Regardless of who reported the issue, the fact remains that the issue was reported and is an indication of the existence, and real probability of vigilante style activity within this group. Moreover, the real issue is not the idea that this group does participate in vigilante activities but that there is the very real probability that it will happen. That is why they are 'concerned'.
That you choose to deny the truth of this and continue to debate 'me' and/or my motives speaks volumes regarding your tenuous hold on the truth.
| Quote: | | ...somehow being touted as ample proof that illegal immigration is not a huge issue on a national level. |
Nice diversion. I never touted anything as ample proof, nor did I say anything about illegal immigration being an issue or not. The issue is border patrol by 'volunteer' groups which presents a very real threat of vigilante behavior.
| Quote: | | Or how about your "facts" from the SPLC a completely leftist organization that supports and defends illegal behavior. |
Like I said, who reported the incident is not proof that there was no incident.
| Quote: | | I think we can both agree that your report from left leaning MSNBC is as much of a spin as reports from right leaning Fox News. MSNBC won't report on how much the border patrol has benefitted from community participation and Fox News won't report on incidents like the one you adduce here. |
Irrelevant.
| Quote: | | But in spite of the impression intended, the Minutemen founder Jim Gilchrist has made it clear that nobody is to take the law into their own hands. |
So what? I make it clear to my children that they are not to do certain things. Does that mean that they will not do those things? Be real.
| Quote: | The fact that a few people disregarded this mandate is not due to a lack of effort on the MMP's part to clearly state what is and isn't allowed.
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You do realize that you have just contradicted your previous point don't you? You establish that it is a fact that people disregarded an intent of the founder, and yet cannot admit that this is exactly the 'concern' voiced by Bush and others. Your circles are dizzying....
| Quote: | | The thousands assisting in this project are mostly doing the right thing so let's try to be fair, ok? |
Fair? Like the fairness you've shown by condemning someone for voicing concerns about potential activity that you have just admitted was a fact?
| Quote: | | With this being an example, in spite of your claim to be the thinking, reasoning party in this fence, I find you to be just as partisan and intellectually biased....so please...get off your high horse! |
Your own words belie your ability to recognize thinking and reasoning.
You find me to be partisan and intellectually biased? I suppose you are right. I am intellectually biased for I do tend to lean towards the side of intellect rather than knee-jerk parroting of someone else's malformed opinion. You should try it sometime. |
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