Inerrant Biblical Truth

P1234567890 · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Inerrant Biblical Truth

In case anyone here was confused about which was right, the Bible or science, the following website explains exactly how you should be thinking:

http://www.fixedearth.com/

apocatastasis · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 1827

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:52 am Post subject:

I thought that they did an inadequate job of tying abortion into all of the issues. For example, everyone knows that evolutionists just love abortions and want to force everyone to have them.

Apart from that, I thought that this web page was quite good...

John R Nolan · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: Atheism

p12134567890

That any website can tell myself or anybody else how we must be thinking is VERY SCARY.
Whatever happened to the human right to think for oneself, to be able to research, compile, compare and deduce a chain of thoughts which independently summarize the incoming data to formulate one's OWN OPINION?
If this is our society's state of mental independence, then how low have we stooped as a specie?

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hello P1234567890

John R Nolan · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: CHOICES

Thank you for that Steven, it is the readers who cause all the confusion with the Bible, GOD has no problem with It.
What is unfortunate is that so many people are deceived, mislead by charlatans who profess to be Bible experts, religious leaders, but are, as Jesus said, 'blind leaders of the blind.'
Mt.15:14; 23:16-26; Rom.2:1-16.
Scripture is of no private interpretation and GOD reveals It's meaning by bring to pass what HE has prophesied, declared.
Jesus was GOD expressed; not another god, a part of GOD but GOD manifest in flesh, neither a trinity, a twoness but the perfect expression of GOD, in and as His Son.
Religion is the greatest enemy of Christianity, as it was of Judaism and is why Scripture implores GOD'S children to come out of 'HER', the religious systems and to get back into HIM, the WORD.
Personal interpretation prevented Isreal from identifying their Messiah, personal interpretation has blinded the last, Gentile age to the fulfillment of GOD'S presence and plan for this, the last age of all.
Amen
Best not confuse the issue;

Argenta · Labrador Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 322 Location: UK

Here's a question for you:

If someone approached you holding a 1,000 page book in his hand and told you that the book had been written over several thousand years by many different authors and went on to claim that his book was inerrant, how would you validate (or invalidate) his claim?

Let's put the Bible to one side for a moment and consider this unknown book. How would a reasonable person test this claim to arrive at a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt?

Love

Argenta

james · Bear Cub Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 648

I suppose the first step would be to historically and archeologically confirm dates and times of the people and places mentioned. Basically cross reference the book with historical accounts, this would seem to be the beginning to confirming its genuinity.

Argenta · Labrador Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 322 Location: UK

John R Nolan · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: Validating the Book

The concept of this particular book, Argenta, written by 40 authors, would of course have a range of topics which would be interrelated, though, may we ask, would the authors have written their work over a period of 6,000 years, would they have had contact with each other to compare notes, and would their topics produce a single piece of literature which is extensively inter-related and totally complimentary?
If this were so, would this Book be able to tolerate the continual examination, disection and outright attempts at wilful destruction which the Bible has undergone?
Next we could use numerical valuation of each letter, each word each sentence and paragraph, to see if it maintained a perfect mathematical identification and consistency.
You may research the books by Ivan Panin, who has done extensive work in this field with the Bible, satisfactorily demonstrating there is a mathematical code to Scripture which cannot be found in any other work.
A book worthy of consideration is "Seal of God" by F.C. Payne.
His forward, "My purpose in this little book is to set forth in clear, indisputable evidence
1 that God is the mighty Creator of all things
2 that the Bible as originally given is God's revelation to man
3 that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only Saviour of the world."
After honestly assessing the valuation of this book you provide against these criteria, it's accuracy, it's proven reliability and it's mathematical valuation, I may then consider whether it is a book of especial significance to the positive Spiritual, moral, and social condition of our society, as well as examining it's prophetic accuracy.
If your book meets these criteria, I'd say you have given me a King James Bible, as no other book ever has been, nor will ever be written which can achieve the required criteria.

james · Bear Cub Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 648

Very well put John, I agree totally.

Also I believe faith plays a huge part, for evidence to one may not be accepted as evidence to another.
To clearify, if I asked someone to prove to me that some place in history truely existed, or any person such as George Washington or Mohammed, you could provide all the "evidence" you felt you had and I could easily deny your evidence as fakes. And just demand that you "SHOW ME" or I will not believe you. This of course would be impossible seeing both are dead or such a place no longer exist. This would be where faith comes in.

Argenta, I know we had part of a discussion on this before, I know what I felt as evidence was not accepted as evidence to you ( I am not saying you were wrong).
What is the criterea for acceptable evidence to you ? And is there such a thing as a universal criterea.
(I must say ahead of time I would question any response relating to science, as an example why, science accepts the "theory of evolution" as evidence for the evolution of mankind and there is no such evidence ( as I believe ) for that is why it is still call the "theory.")

Colter · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 409

Forum,

This is a snip from my favorite book which has some insights into this problem of "book worship".

THE FURTHER EVOLUTION OF RELIGION

Religion can never become a scientific fact. Philosophy may, indeed, rest on a scientific basis, but religion will ever remain either evolutionary or revelatory, or a possible combination of both, as it is in the world today.

New religions cannot be invented; they are either evolved, or else they are suddenly revealed. All new evolutionary religions are merely advancing expressions of the old beliefs, new adaptations and adjustments. The old does not cease to exist; it is merged with the new, even as Sikhism budded and blossomed out of the soil and forms of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and other contemporary cults. Primitive religion was very democratic; the savage was quick to borrow or lend. Only with revealed religion did autocratic and intolerant theologic egotism appear.

The many religions of Urantia are all good to the extent that they bring man to God and bring the realization of the Father to man. It is a fallacy for any group of religionists to conceive of their creed as The Truth; such attitudes bespeak more of theological arrogance than of certainty of faith. There is not a Urantia religion that could not profitably study and assimilate the best of the truths contained in every other faith, for all contain truth. Religionists would do better to borrow the best in their neighbors' living spiritual faith rather than to denounce the worst in their lingering superstitions and outworn rituals.

All these religions have arisen as a result of man's variable intellectual response to his identical spiritual leading. They can never hope to attain a uniformity of creeds, dogmas, and rituals--these are intellectual; but they can, and some day will, realize a unity in true worship of the Father of all, for this is spiritual, and it is forever true, in the spirit all men are equal.

Primitive religion was largely a material-value consciousness, but civilization elevates religious values, for true religion is the devotion of the self to the service of meaningful and supreme values. As religion evolves, ethics becomes the philosophy of morals, and morality becomes the discipline of self by the standards of highest meanings and supreme values--divine and spiritual ideals. And thus religion becomes a spontaneous and exquisite devotion, the living experience of the loyalty of love.

The quality of a religion is indicated by:

1. Level values--loyalties.

2. Depth of meanings--the sensitization of the individual to the idealistic appreciation of these highest values.

3. Consecration intensity--the degree of devotion to these divine values.

4. The unfettered progress of the personality in this cosmic path of idealistic spiritual living, realization of sonship with God and never-ending progressive citizenship in the universe.

Religious meanings progress in self-consciousness when the child transfers his ideas of omnipotence from his parents to God. And the entire religious experience of such a child is largely dependent on whether fear or love has dominated the parent-child relationship. Slaves have always experienced great difficulty in transferring their master-fear into concepts of God-love. Civilization, science, and advanced religions must deliver mankind from those fears born of the dread of natural phenomena. And so should greater enlightenment deliver educated mortals from all dependence on intermediaries in communion with Deity.

These intermediate stages of idolatrous hesitation in the transfer of veneration from the human and the visible to the divine and invisible are inevitable, but they should be shortened by the consciousness of the facilitating ministry of the indwelling divine spirit. Nevertheless, man has been profoundly influenced, not only by his concepts of Deity, but also by the character of the heroes whom he has chosen to honor. It is most unfortunate that those who have come to venerate the divine and risen Christ should have overlooked the man--the valiant and courageous hero--Joshua ben Joseph.

Modern man is adequately self-conscious of religion, but his worshipful customs are confused and discredited by his accelerated social metamorphosis and unprecedented scientific developments. Thinking men and women want religion redefined, and this demand will compel religion to re-evaluate itself.

Modern man is confronted with the task of making more readjustments of human values in one generation than have been made in two thousand years. And this all influences the social attitude toward religion, for religion is a way of living as well as a technique of thinking.

True religion must ever be, at one and the same time, the eternal foundation and the guiding star of all enduring civilizations.

[Presented by a Melchizedek of Nebadon.] Urantia Book 1955

Colter

atoz · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Inerrant Biblical Truth

John R Nolan · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: PROOFS

It appears that the scholars are again missing the crucial point of Christianity.
("seeing they crucify unto themselves the Son of GOD afresh" Heb.6:6)?

Those who believe the Bible are not looking for any specific, scientific evidence to prove the Bible is truth, though there is an endless quantity of evidence to support It's authenticity.
We accept IT as GOD'S chosen method of communicating with His children, not with the world.

Sure the world has claimed ownership of the Bible when it suits their needs, but the Lord Jesus Christ stated that He prayed NOT for the world, but for those His Father has given Him. Jn.17:9, again we read that He came for those who were 'in Him before the foundation of the world' Eph.1:4 showing election is an inherent part of Christianity, much to the chargin of all religious idiots who are running around suggesting salvation is for everybody.

It is NOT, and ONLY those whose eyes GOD opens will ever be able to comprehend what is going on.
Sure GOD would prefer that none were lost, if that were to be so there would have been no need for Him to make hell, but Scripture speaks in many places of those who are lost, who are condemned to outer darkness, to a burning fire, etc.

As for religion, it is a man made cacophany of personal interpretations, arrogance, dictatorial malevolance, and is now totally under Lucifer's control.

Sure, there are sincere, dedicated, GOD loving and fearing Christians within all denominations, and Scripture encourages GOD'S people to "Come out of her My people that ye be not partakers of her sins" Rev.18:4
The 'her' refers to
1. The great *One Who Practices the World's Oldest Profession* of Rev.17:1 and
2. her harlot daughters, the denominations, all of whom are descendants of mother Rome, the Vatican.

Christians believe the Bible because It is GOD'S Word to us, which hopefully explains to the uncomprehending that we are saved by FAITH, and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of GOD. Eph.2:8, 9; see also Hab.2:4; Rom.1:17; 5:1; Gal.3:11; etc.
Religion is a scientific fact.
It can be numbered by sects, cults and denominations, (all one and the same thing) it can be documented, has legal recognition, can avoid paying taxes, can get govt. funding, and is widely known and established throughout the world.
Christianity is NOT A RELIGION, it is a walk, a life, a personal relationship with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and one would expect that would be the confession of all Christians, but few church members.
A quick after thought; where would science be if GOD had not CREATED a universe, a world, chemicals, physical toys for them to analyse, dissect, argue over, play with and fight about?
It was the partaking of the tree of knowledge, INSTEAD of the TREE of LIFE, that got us all in this mess at the start, wasn't it?

Argenta · Labrador Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 322 Location: UK

Hello John