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pastor2022
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: Defined by Our Love for God |
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Defined by Our Love for God
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
with all your soul, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy 6:4,5
Our love for God ought to be our defining characteristic and the thing that determines our action. If there is to be a fixed center point around which all our other characteristics revolve, the love of God should be it. There is no statement of more fundamental, far-reaching importance than the famous statement of Moses to Israel: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." No less an authority than Jesus quoted this text when He was asked what was the greatest commandment in God's law.
In any person's life, the objects of that person's love make some kind of comment as to his or her character. As Arsene Houssaye said, "Tell me whom you love, and I will tell you what you are." But if this holds true in general, it is also true with respect to God. In assessing the quality of our character, all anyone ever needs to know is the answer to this question: how deep is our love for our Creator? When that question has been answered accurately, the very root of our personal being will have been discovered. And if the truth is that we do not love God, then nothing else can compensate for that deficiency.
Our love for God is to be an all-encompassing, consummate love. To love Him with all our heart, all our soul, and all our strength means that many other concerns (some of which by themselves are quite important) must be subordinated to our love for God. And this is not a thing that we can do once and for all and then forget about it. Putting the love of God at the center of our hearts and keeping it there is a matter of daily decision. When we neglect this daily decision to love God, it doesn't take more than a few days for the chaos to begin creeping back in. So we must resist this tendency at all costs. We must draw the lines of demarcation where they ought to be drawn -- and thereby "define" ourselves as people who truly do love God. |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
pastor 2022 wrote:
| Quote: | | In any person's life, the objects of that person's love make some kind of comment as to his or her character. As Arsene Houssaye said, "Tell me whom you love, and I will tell you what you are." But if this holds true in general, it is also true with respect to God. |
If this is true is that why Christians say they are sinners? Is it saying that we do not love God enough?
In Christ, Judy |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Defined by Our Love for God |
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| pastor2022 wrote: | Defined by Our Love for God
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
with all your soul, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy 6:4,5
Our love for God ought to be our defining characteristic and the thing that determines our action. If there is to be a fixed center point around which all our other characteristics revolve, the love of God should be it. There is no statement of more fundamental, far-reaching importance than the famous statement of Moses to Israel: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." No less an authority than Jesus quoted this text when He was asked what was the greatest commandment in God's law.
In any person's life, the objects of that person's love make some kind of comment as to his or her character. As Arsene Houssaye said, "Tell me whom you love, and I will tell you what you are." But if this holds true in general, it is also true with respect to God. In assessing the quality of our character, all anyone ever needs to know is the answer to this question: how deep is our love for our Creator? When that question has been answered accurately, the very root of our personal being will have been discovered. And if the truth is that we do not love God, then nothing else can compensate for that deficiency.
Our love for God is to be an all-encompassing, consummate love. To love Him with all our heart, all our soul, and all our strength means that many other concerns (some of which by themselves are quite important) must be subordinated to our love for God. And this is not a thing that we can do once and for all and then forget about it. Putting the love of God at the center of our hearts and keeping it there is a matter of daily decision. When we neglect this daily decision to love God, it doesn't take more than a few days for the chaos to begin creeping back in. So we must resist this tendency at all costs. We must draw the lines of demarcation where they ought to be drawn -- and thereby "define" ourselves as people who truly do love God. |
P2022!
Simply awesome!
It's so nice,
we have to say it twice!smile
More later.
in Love,
atoz |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
hugs
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Defined by Our Love for God |
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| pastor2022 wrote: |
...... In assessing the quality of our character, all anyone ever needs to know is the answer to this question: how deep is our love for our Creator? When that question has been answered accurately, the very root of our personal being will have been discovered. And if the truth is that we do not love God, then nothing else can compensate for that deficiency.
.....
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And the Love whose depth can be measured or whose number can be numbered is not deep enough nor enough!smile
In the Love
whose depth is unfathomable,
whose height is immeasurable,
whose length is infinite
and
whose width is endless, Ephes 3:17-18
atoz |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: | Greetings,
pastor 2022 wrote:
| Quote: | | In any person's life, the objects of that person's love make some kind of comment as to his or her character. As Arsene Houssaye said, "Tell me whom you love, and I will tell you what you are." But if this holds true in general, it is also true with respect to God. |
If this is true is that why Christians say they are sinners? Is it saying that we do not love God enough?
In Christ, Judy |
Sorry its taken so long for me to respond but my mother just got out of the hospital last week and I've been having to go over and check on her everyday. I think Christians say they are still sinners because they do things everyday that they consider sins not necessarily because they do not love God enough. All of us have not reached perfection practically, that is experientially, in our lives yet. At least I know I haven't. I strive to and desire to but what you in another post defined as "dead works" are things I still stuggle with. Those have nothing to do with my love for God.
With that said, I know that love for God can be and should be an ever increasing quality in my life as I strive and attempt to be more Christ-like in my actions and attitudes. I think that is also the work of the Spirit in His fruit-bearing according to Galatians 5:22 "And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law;
24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;
25 if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk;
26 let us not become vain-glorious--one another provoking, one another envying!" (YLT)
I also find that Paul, in Galatians 5:17 says," What your corrupt nature wants is contrary to what your spiritual nature wants, and what your spiritual nature wants is contrary to what your corrupt nature wants. They are opposed to each other. As a result, you don't always do what you intend to do."(GW)
God bless. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I hope your mom is doing ok pastor2022.
I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.
Love
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| pastor2022 wrote: |
.....
Sorry its taken so long for me to respond but my mother just got out of the hospital last week and I've been having to go over and check on her everyday.
|
Prayers for your mom, p2022.
| pastor2022 wrote: |
I think Christians say they are still sinners because they do things everyday that they consider sins not necessarily because they do not love God enough. All of us have not reached perfection practically, that is experientially, in our lives yet. At least I know I haven't. I strive to and desire to but what you in another post defined as "dead works" are things I still stuggle with. Those have nothing to do with my love for God.
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But P2022,
doesn't there have to be a problem with your attitude of Love IF you still have problems with the things you *do*?
In other words,
if I assume that my Love for God is ok,
then I must conclude that my Love for me must be ok: I love myself enough already!--if I cd only love others as much as i love myself!----
and so
I must also conclude that it is YOUR fault that I hate you!
see?
I am also upset with me for allowing you to got me to DO something I did NOT want to do! But the blame mainly fails on you!
Example:
Let's say that you do feel that you love enough: so you wd say: I am loving enough or I have enough Love.
Now let's say that you had a problem with your anger: you get angry and to you that's a sin.
Then one day you realise:
But JC says to be angry and sin not.Eph 4:26
It's anger with no cause that is a sin. Mt 5:21-22.
But anger with no cause is anger expressed in Hate!
Hmmm
That means anger or being angry is NOT the sin!
So the sin HAS to be something else.
Let's see:
I can be angry in love as JC was angry is Love.mark 3.
hey, so the sin is my Hate for and in my anger.
Hey, so like einstein i have to back to my premise and revise it: I was not loving enough simply because I was still thinking anger was the sin when it was Hate for anger that was and is the sin.
So now I repent of my sin of Hate for anger,
love me as angry, love the person i am angry with, be angry with them in love,--- sin not since there is NO sin---
and now,
I have more Love for me and God and all others,
AND I have eliminated the sin of Hate for anger
AND I have eliminated being angry as a sin!!!!!!!!
See?
In other words,
the more Love you have, the less sin there is,
and there is less sin NOT because you overcome the sin by NOT DOING it, but because you realise that what you thought was sin was NO sin at all!!!!!!!
See the trick?
The anger was never the sin in the first place; so even if you cd have completely eliminated anger, which can NOT be eliminated, ---since God built it into us in words!---you wd still be sinning!
Now you try it out on killing as you try to overcome killing:
Suppose you had killed someone.
Please read Isaiah 45:7-8. Deut 32:39. John 3:16; 10:18. Gen 22. acts 4:27-28.
Q to answer: was the killing the sin or was your hatred in the killing the sin?
| pastor2022 wrote: |
With that said, I know that love for God can be and should be an ever increasing quality in my life as I strive and attempt to be more Christ-like in my actions and attitudes.
|
See how you can now re-state that, now that you know that more Love in attitude automatically means less sin in thoughts words and deeds?
| pastor2022 wrote: |
I think that is also the work of the Spirit in His fruit-bearing according to Galatians 5:22 "And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law;
24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;
25 if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk;
26 let us not become vain-glorious--one another provoking, one another envying!" (YLT)
|
When we repent of a certain amount of the sin of hate, we get a certain amount of the Holy Spirit of Love. acts 2:38-40.
So to get more Love, we repent of more of our Hate of words and so people and all things.
[quote="pastor2022"]
I also find that Paul, in Galatians 5:17 says," What your corrupt nature wants is contrary to what your spiritual nature wants, and what your spiritual nature wants is contrary to what your corrupt nature wants. They are opposed to each other. As a result, you don't always do what you intend to do."(GW) | pastor2022 wrote: |
God bless.
|
That's perfect!smile
To perfectly spell it out:
What your corrupt nature of Hate for any words wants
is contrary to
what your spiritual nature of Love for all words wants,
and
what your spiritual nature of Love for all words wants
is contrary to
what your corrupt nature of Hate for any word wants.
They are opposed to each other:
Love in Love of its enemies opposes Hate, and in Love of Hate opposes Hate.
Hate in hate of its enemies opposes Love, and in Hate of Love opposes Love!
As a result, to the extent you hate any words,
you won't and don't always do what you intend to do in Love.
As a result, to the extent we lvoe all words,
there will be no and there cd be no daylight between what I always do and what I always intend to do.
In Love for all words,
In Hate for no word,
In Hate only for the sin that God hates: the sin that God hates being: the sin of Hate for any word or thing,
atoz |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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[quote="atoz"] | pastor2022 wrote: |
.....
Sorry its taken so long for me to respond but my mother just got out of the hospital last week and I've been having to go over and check on her everyday.
|
Prayers for your mom, p2022.
Thanks so much, they are appreciated!
| pastor2022 wrote: |
I think Christians say they are still sinners because they do things everyday that they consider sins not necessarily because they do not love God enough. All of us have not reached perfection practically, that is experientially, in our lives yet. At least I know I haven't. I strive to and desire to but what you in another post defined as "dead works" are things I still stuggle with. Those have nothing to do with my love for God.
|
But P2022,
doesn't there have to be a problem with your attitude of Love IF you still have problems with the things you *do*?
I don't see it as my "attitude" of love but of the practical working out of my love. That is, the functioning of my love towards others. Maybe we're just talking semantics here.
In other words,
if I assume that my Love for God is ok,
then I must conclude that my Love for me must be ok: I love myself enough already!--if I cd only love others as much as i love myself!----
and so
I must also conclude that it is YOUR fault that I hate you!
see?
I am also upset with me for allowing you to got me to DO something I did NOT want to do! But the blame mainly fails on you!
Example:
Let's say that you do feel that you love enough: so you wd say: I am loving enough or I have enough Love.
Now let's say that you had a problem with your anger: you get angry and to you that's a sin.
Then one day you realise:
But JC says to be angry and sin not.Eph 4:26
It's anger with no cause that is a sin. Mt 5:21-22.
Anger is not a sin, it is what we do or how we express that anger that can become the sin.IMO
But anger with no cause is anger expressed in Hate!
Hmmm
That means anger or being angry is NOT the sin!
So the sin HAS to be something else.
I agree as stated above. It's what we do or say after we've become angry.
Let's see:
I can be angry in love as JC was angry is Love.mark 3.
hey, so the sin is my Hate for and in my anger.
Hey, so like einstein i have to back to my premise and revise it: I was not loving enough simply because I was still thinking anger was the sin when it was Hate for anger that was and is the sin.
So now I repent of my sin of Hate for anger,
love me as angry, love the person i am angry with, be angry with them in love,--- sin not since there is NO sin---
and now,
I have more Love for me and God and all others,
AND I have eliminated the sin of Hate for anger
AND I have eliminated being angry as a sin!!!!!!!!
See?
In other words,
the more Love you have, the less sin there is,
and there is less sin NOT because you overcome the sin by NOT DOING it, but because you realise that what you thought was sin was NO sin at all!!!!!!!
See the trick?
The anger was never the sin in the first place; so even if you cd have completely eliminated anger, which can NOT be eliminated, ---since God built it into us in words!---you wd still be sinning!
I think I agree here as I think I understand what you are saying.
Now you try it out on killing as you try to overcome killing:
Suppose you had killed someone.
Please read Isaiah 45:7-8. Deut 32:39. John 3:16; 10:18. Gen 22. acts 4:27-28.
Q to answer: was the killing the sin or was your hatred in the killing the sin?
Jesus was very plain in saying that if there is hatred in your heart, it is the same as murder I believe. Sin always begins in the mind.
| pastor2022 wrote: |
With that said, I know that love for God can be and should be an ever increasing quality in my life as I strive and attempt to be more Christ-like in my actions and attitudes.
|
See how you can now re-state that, now that you know that more Love in attitude automatically means less sin in thoughts words and deeds?
| pastor2022 wrote: |
I think that is also the work of the Spirit in His fruit-bearing according to Galatians 5:22 "And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law;
24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;
25 if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk;
26 let us not become vain-glorious--one another provoking, one another envying!" (YLT)
|
When we repent of a certain amount of the sin of hate, we get a certain amount of the Holy Spirit of Love. acts 2:38-40.
So to get more Love, we repent of more of our Hate of words and so people and all things.
| pastor2022 wrote: |
I also find that Paul, in Galatians 5:17 says," What your corrupt nature wants is contrary to what your spiritual nature wants, and what your spiritual nature wants is contrary to what your corrupt nature wants. They are opposed to each other. As a result, you don't always do what you intend to do."(GW) | pastor2022 wrote: |
God bless.
|
That's perfect!smile
To perfectly spell it out:
What your corrupt nature of Hate for any words wants
is contrary to
what your spiritual nature of Love for all words wants,
and
what your spiritual nature of Love for all words wants
is contrary to
what your corrupt nature of Hate for any word wants.
They are opposed to each other:
Love in Love of its enemies opposes Hate, and in Love of Hate opposes Hate.
Hate in hate of its enemies opposes Love, and in Hate of Love opposes Love!
As a result, to the extent you hate any words,
you won't and don't always do what you intend to do in Love.
As a result, to the extent we lvoe all words,
there will be no and there cd be no daylight between what I always do and what I always intend to do.
That, I believe, is what Paul was talking about in the verse I quoted. It is what we should all be striving for.
In Love for all words,
In Hate for no word,
In Hate only for the sin that God hates: the sin that God hates being: the sin of Hate for any word or thing,
atoz |
Again, thanks for the prayers for my mother and may you be blessed in all of God's love and goodness.
Pastor2022 |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi P2022,
Thanx for your reply!
We are on the same track---basically!smile
with the aisle of view,
atoz |
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