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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Ishmael |
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| Steven3 wrote: | | Can I suggest that this also might best be a separate thread - Ishmael or Isaac? |
Yes , It's better. I'll provide you with :-
- Evidences from Islam
- Evidences from OT
Regards[/list] |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| Abdelaleem wrote: | | composer2005 wrote: | You admitted yourself that Muhammed killed to sustain his Religion and you said that other Religions did the same so you admitted you are all as bad as each other and now you try to take back what you already admitted?
That is flagrant dishonesty!
Bizarre! |
ِAs me and others explained before there is a difference between murder and fights.
Yes Mohamed led Moslims to fight to defend themselves and the new religion but he is not a murderer.
do you want to know how these fights was :-
First one (Badr) 300 Moslims againsts 1000
Second (Ohod ) 1000 against 1000
Third 3000 against 3000
It was like a mesacre to Moslims |
Islam, you agree is founded on killing to support itself.
trinitarianism is also founded on those ungodly tenets.
Neither Christ nor his Apostles and Original followers killed any one to defend their Religion.
I know which I choose. |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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Hi Abdelaleem  | Abdelaleem wrote: | | Steven3 wrote: | | Please do not judge Christ and the NT by Christianity, likewise we should not judge Muhammed and the Quran by muslim history. |
Prophet Christ (Eisa) peace be upon him is ours and doesn’t belong the trinity church. There is no relationship between him and what have been done by Christians. |
Thank you , glad you recognise that.
As an aside question - how do muslims view the pacifism of Jesus?
OT - Abraham, Joshua, David, all fought in wars.
NT - Jesus forbids taking the sword (John 18:36)
Quran - Mohammed fought in wars.
Interested in this. Does the Hadith comment on the pacifism of Jesus?
God bless
Steven
_________________
Jo5:26 The Father ... has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Ro6:10 the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
2Co13:4 he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| Steven3 wrote: | Interested in this. Does the Hadith comment on the pacifism of Jesus?
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Allah Almighty honoured Miriam and Jesus very much in Islam. Miriam is recognized as the best woman all over history. She is better that Mohamed wives and daughters. I think this gives you an idea how Quran is Allah’s words otherwise may be Mohamed will select his wife or daughters as the best woman.
There is a complete Sura named by Miriam.
The only woman her name is explicitly exposed in Quran.
She is the best woman all over human being history.
About the christ following is his story from his birth
[16] Relate in the Book (the story of) Maryam, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
[17] She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
[18] She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
[19] He said: "Nay, I am only a Messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son."
[20] She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
[21] He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': it is matter (so) decreed."
[22] So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
[23] And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree: she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"
[24] But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee”;
[25] "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
[26] "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being'"
[27] At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Maryam! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
[28] "O sister of Harun! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
[29] But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
[30] He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
[31] "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live:”
[32] "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable” ;
[33] "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"
[34] Such (was) 'Isa the son of Maryam: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
[35] It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
See what Allah said in Quran about Christ:-
1- appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':
2- He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be,
3- "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
4- "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"
And there are many verses in Quran about his born, childhood, debate ,,,
Peace upon him. I love him very much. I love to talk about him |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Islam |
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Hi Abdelaleem | Abdelaleem wrote: | | Steven3 wrote: | Interested in this. Does the Hadith comment on the pacifism of Jesus?
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Allah Almighty honoured Miriam and Jesus very much in Islam. Miriam is recognized as the best woman all over history. She is better that Mohamed wives and daughters. I think this gives you an idea how Quran is Allah’s words otherwise may be Mohamed will select his wife or daughters as the best woman.
There is a complete Sura named by Miriam.
...........
See what Allah said in Quran about Christ:-
1- appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':
2- He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be,
3- "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
4- "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"
And there are many verses in Quran about his born, childhood, debate ,,,
Peace upon him. I love him very much. I love to talk about him |
Yes, I already have these verses marked with yellow highlighter in my translation of Quran. But none of these verses address the pacifist, turn-the-other-cheek, put-away-your-sword teaching of Jesus in John 18:36 etc.
It would not surprise me if this does not feature in the Quran, because frankly it is something most of Christian history has ignored - I suspect the Christians of the Arabian peninsula in Mohammed's time were very far in their behaviour from Christ's teaching "put-away-your-sword", so Muhammed would not know that Christ taught pacifism. Joshua, Gideon, David - many of the prophets in the Quran before Jesus were great warriors, but Jesus was not. Does the Quran comment on this difference between Jesus and David?
God bless تكرم عينك
Steven
_________________
Jo5:26 The Father ... has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Ro6:10 the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
2Co13:4 he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| Steven3 wrote: | It would not surprise me if this does not feature in the Quran, because frankly it is something most of Christian history has ignored - I suspect the Christians of the Arabian peninsula in Mohammed's time were very far in their behaviour from Christ's teaching "put-away-your-sword", so Muhammed would not know that Christ taught pacifism. Joshua, Gideon, David - many of the prophets in the Quran before Jesus were great warriors, but Jesus was not. Does the Quran comment on this difference between Jesus and David?
God bless تكرم عينك
Steven |
It wouldn’t surprise me that you think Mohamed writes Quran on his own not from Allah.
Again, Mohamed only knows one Christian in Mecca. Warqa he was Mohamed’s wife cosine. She consulted him when Gabriel appeared first time to Mohamed. So, the theory of cloning Quran from OT and NT is not valid for many reasons.
Anyway, I don’t know an answer for your question now. I’ll search in this point. |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: Islam |
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| Abdelaleem wrote: | | It wouldn’t surprise me that you think Mohamed writes Quran on his own not from Allah. |
The Qur'an gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammed was called to be a prophet: -
1. In Sura 53:2-18 and 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared.
2. In Sura 16:102 and 26:192-194 he was called by the Holy Spirit.
3. In Sura 15:8, the angels announced his prophetic ministry.
4. The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and gave him the Qur'an. His first converts were genies whom he allegedly preached to and converted. Sura 46:29-35; 72:1-28.
- - - - |
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Ben Chalfant
German Shepherd
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 332
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| I am so thankful that Jesus is God! He is God of Catholics, God of Jews, God of Methodists, God of Pentecostals, God of Muslims, He is God of all heaven and all earth. I thank you, and I praise you Jesus, my Lord and my God! |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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[quote="composer2005"]The Qur'an gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammed was called to be a prophet: -
- - - -
Composer,
You’re a sample of misled Christians. You just copy and past from some references without verification. I ask you to read what you’re posting next time. Please find the list of verses you’re referring to. Next time don’t try to get conflict in Quran. There is no way.
| composer2005 wrote: | | 1. In Sura 53:2-18 and 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared. |
Following are the verses
53: [2] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled,
[3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[5] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
[6] Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form)
[7] While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
[8] Then he approached and came closer,
[9] And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
[10] So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant; (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
[11] The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
[12] Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
[12] Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
[13] For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
[14] Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may pass:
[15] Near it is the Garden of Abode.
[16] Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!)
[17] (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
[18] For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
These verses describe Mohamed’s trip to heaven when he met Allah. There is nothing about “called to be a prophet“
81: [19] Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger,
[20] Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne,
[21] With authority there, (and) faithful to his trust.
[22] And (O people)! Your Companion is not one possessed;
[23] And without doubt he saw him in the clear horizon.
[24] Neither doth he withhold grudgingly a knowledge of the Unseen.
These verses describe the same trip. There is nothing about “called to be a prophet“
| composer2005 wrote: | | 2. In Sura 16:102 and 26:192-194 he was called by the Holy Spirit. |
16: [102] Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
For sure you’re confused as in Islam “Holy Spirit “ is Gabriel. It’s about the Quran as Gabriel brought is to Mohamed there is nothing about “called to be a prophet“
26: [192] Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the worlds:
[193] With it came down the Spirit of Faith and Truth,
[194] To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish
It’s about Quran as it’s a revelation from Allah “Spirit of Faith and Trush” is also Gabriel. there is nothing about “called to be a prophet: -“
| composer2005 wrote: | | 3. In Sura 15:8, the angels announced his prophetic ministry. |
15: [8] We send not the angels down except for just cause: if they came (to the ungodly), behold! no respite would they have!
[9] We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
It’s about sending angles with the messages to the profits. It’s talking about Quran that it’s guarded from corruption. Again, there is nothing about “called to be a prophet:“
| composer2005 wrote: | | 4. The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and gave him the Qur'an. His first converts were genies whom he allegedly preached to and converted. Sura 46:29-35; 72:1-28. |
46[29] Behold, We turned towards thee a company of Jinns (quietly) listening to the Qur-an: when they stood in the presence thereof, they said, "Listen in silence!" when the (reading) was finished, they returned to their people, to warn (them of their sins).
72:[1] Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur-an). They said, ' We have really heard a wonderful Recital!
It’s about Junns listened to Quran. Nothing about Gabriel Again, there is nothing about “called to be a prophet“
Summary,
I didn’t find anything related to your quote there is nothing about “called to be a prophet: -“
Please review your quotes in the future otherwise you’ll loose your creditability.
There is also a confusion about the revelation of the Quran . Allah send Gabriel who is an angel has especial name in Islam “Holy Spirit” |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ben Chalfant wrote: | | I am so thankful that Jesus is God! He is God of Catholics, God of Jews, God of Methodists, God of Pentecostals, God of Muslims, He is God of all heaven and all earth. I thank you, and I praise you Jesus, my Lord and my God! |
I have to record my objection that God is Jesus. There is only one God who is the creator, All-Compassionate ,All-Merciful ,The Absolute Ruler ,The Pure One, The Source of Peace , no one like him
For sure he is God of all humans, heaven, land, everything
but for sure he is not the Christ |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| composer2005 wrote: | | The Qur'an gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammed was called to be a prophet: |
| Abdelaleem wrote: | Composer,
You’re a sample of misled Christians. |
Read on please and we shall soon see that it is not I that is currently misguided.
| Abdelaleem wrote: | | . . . . You just copy and past from some references without verification. I ask you to read what you’re posting next time. Please find the list of verses you’re referring to. Next time don’t try to get conflict in Quran. There is no way. |
| composer2005 wrote: | | 1. In Sura 53:2-18 and 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared. |
| Abdelaleem wrote: | Following are the verses
53: [2] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled,
[3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[5] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
[6] Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form)
[7] While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
[8] Then he approached and came closer,
[9] And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
[10] So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant; (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
[11] The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
[12] Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
[12] Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
[13] For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
[14] Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may pass:
[15] Near it is the Garden of Abode.
[16] Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!)
[17] (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
[18] For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
These verses describe Mohamed’s trip to heaven when he met Allah. There is nothing about “called to be a prophet“ |
Oh really? you better read again - [10] So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant; (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey. [11] The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
| Abdelaleem wrote: | [81: [19] Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger,
[20] Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne,
[21] With authority there, (and) faithful to his trust.
[22] And (O people)! Your Companion is not one possessed;
[23] And without doubt he saw him in the clear horizon.
[24] Neither doth he withhold grudgingly a knowledge of the Unseen.
These verses describe the same trip. There is nothing about “called to be a prophet“ |
Oh Really, you better read 19 and 20 and 21 especially again.
#1: | composer2005 wrote: | | 2. In Sura 16:102 and 26:192-194 he was called by the Holy Spirit. |
| Abdelaleem wrote: | 16: [102] Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
For sure you’re confused as in Islam “Holy Spirit “ is Gabriel. It’s about the Quran as Gabriel brought is to Mohamed there is nothing about “called to be a prophet“
26: [192] Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the worlds:
[193] With it came down the Spirit of Faith and Truth,
[194] To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish
It’s about Quran as it’s a revelation from Allah “Spirit of Faith and Trush” is also Gabriel. there is nothing about “called to be a prophet: -“ |
Is not a Spirit angel from God Holy?
| composer2005 wrote: | | 3. In Sura 15:8, the angels announced his prophetic ministry. |
15: [8] We send not the angels down except for just cause: if they came (to the ungodly), behold! no respite would they have!
[9] We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
| Abdelaleem wrote: | | It’s about sending angles with the messages to the profits. It’s talking about Quran that it’s guarded from corruption. Again, there is nothing about “called to be a prophet:“ |
Angels bringing God's Word to the Prophets means precisely that!
You seem to think that Allah gives his Word to those He doesn't want to preach it and teach it?
A teacher of God's Word is a Prophet!
More errors in the Quran....
On another Forum a Muslem (Salam1) wrote: There was this one time when the Prophet pbuh was brought up to see Allah SWT.
"Glorified be He who carried His servant at night from Masjid al Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, the precincts of which We have blessed so that We may show him of Our Signs. Verily He is the AllHearing, the All-Seeing. " Surah al-Isra verse 1
As this article below shows, all this introduces is another error in the Quran...
Muhammad's Alleged Night Journey to the Jerusalem Temple
According to the Qu'ran, Allah allegedly took Muhammad on a journey from the Kabah in Mecca to the Temple at Jerusalem:
Quote:
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque (Masjid al-Aqsa), whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). S. 17:1
The problem with all of this is that the first Jerusalem Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian armies in 587 BC. Furthermore, General Titus and his Roman soldiers leveled the Second Temple in AD. 70, more than five centuries before this alleged night journey to Jerusalem took place. In fact, the Temple that eventually became Masjid al-Aqsa did not come into existence until AD. 691 when Amir Abd-ul-Malik built it.
These preceding factors make it highly improbable to date Sura 17:1 to the time of Muhammad. This passage could have only been written sometime after the erection of Masjid al-Aqsa. This is further substantiated by the fact that Masjid al-Aqsa contains no early references to the supposed night journey. This is a strange omission since Muslims claim that Masjid al-Aqsa was erected in commemoration of this alleged event. The inscriptions that do mention the night journey are later additions made by Abdul Hamid II in 1876, nearly eleven centuries later.
In light of all this, we ask the following questions:
1) What Temple did Muhammad visit, enter and pray at before ascending to heaven?
1a) The Bible states - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13) KJV / King James Standard Version Bible.
Thus according to the Bible, Muhammed never went to heaven at all?
2) Seeing that the Quran mentions a journey to a Mosque that did not exist during the lifetime of Muhammad, how can you consider the Qu'ran to be 100% the word of God?
3) In light of the fact that both the Quran and the Islamic traditions contain this historical error, how can you trust either source to provide you with reliable information on the life of Muhammad and the first Muslims?
4) Does not the fact that the Quran mentions a Mosque which was only erected in AD 691 prove that there were Muslims who unashamedly and deceitfully added stories to the Quranic text and passed them off as revelation from God?
5) If you cannot find an answer to this historical problem within the Quran, why do you still remain a Muslim?
| Abdelaleem wrote: | | Please review your quotes in the future otherwise you’ll loose your creditability. |
I did and you appear to be the one in error and with no credibility.
| Abdelaleem wrote: | | There is also a confusion about the revelation of the Quran . Allah send Gabriel who is an angel has especial name in Islam “Holy Spirit”[/b][/color] |
Exactly my point. Please see #1: above.
By the way, I agree that the Bible teaches that JESUS IS NOT God!
I would also remind you that "Why was Muhammed so violent and brutal (even against his own women followers whom he encourages to be beaten to submission (Sura 4:34)) and also killed to defend his Religion, when Jesus Christ NEVER did any of those kind of things but rather the opposite and was a 100% pacifist?"
From an observers point of view, it is obvious to me Islam prefers to follow the teachings of a violent killer and oppressor even against his own women followers, instead of Islam following the man of peace Jesus Christ who was sent by God?
Cheers! |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| composer2005 wrote: | | The Qur'an gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammed was called to be a prophet: |
Let us be organized in the conversation. Otherwise no one will understand anything. So, if we’re discussing 4 conflicting verses then let us close the point first then discuss others. Why did you go to another subject which is the trip?
Why did you go to a third subject which is again violence?
This is not the suitable way of discussion. If we do in this way then we’ll not close any point or we’ll understand that you avoid closing the point so you turn to another one.
So, I’ll reply on the “how Muhammed was called to be a prophet” and ignore the others.
You started with 4 points I replied then you ignored my reply on the 4th one. I considered that you recognized that you shouldn’t claim it from the begining. Ok fine then we have 3 points only.
| composer2005 wrote: | | 4. The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and gave him the Qur'an. His first converts were genies whom he allegedly preached to and converted. Sura 46:29-35; 72:1-28. |
You ignored the 4th , then it’s dropped because you realized you were wrong. I know you’ll not accept my evaluation but this will change nothing because you didn’t even discuss it (-1 from your creditability)
Let us start from the beginning, I understood when you say “how Muhammed was called to be a prophet” means how Mohamed was assigned ,chosen to be a profit, contacted first time . But from your reply I guess you mean how Mohamed was receiving Allah messages (Quran) right or wrong?
For the first thought:
-------“how Muhammed was called to be a prophet” means how Mohamed was assigned, or chosen to be a profit, or contacted first time”
You lost your case because all verses don’t speak about the first contact “called to be a profit” at all.
Let us discuss the second thought “how Muhammed was called to be a prophet” means how Mohamed was receiving Allah messages.
If you referring to these verses for the second thought then you’re totally confused because there is no contradiction at all. These verses describe two way of communication:
- The first way of communication is via Gabriel channel. He is all of the following:-
------Holy Spirit (verse 16:102) ------------------------------------------------your second point
------Spirit of Faith and Truth (verse 26:192-194) ------------------------your second point
------Angel (verse 15-8) – --------------------------------------------------------your third point
------------By the way this verse doesn’t talk about Mohamed specifically it’s about all profits. see how wrong you are
------The second way is from Allah directly during his trip to heaven and Allah’s meeting. This direct contact . by the way it’s one trip happened one time.
------------53-2------------------------------------------------------------------------------your first point
------------81-19----------------------------------------------------------------------------your first point
See no contradiction at all . It’s two ways first is the usual one but with different names for Gabriel. Second communication way is directly happened one during the direct meeting with Allah.
I hope you perceive this info with open minded and not try to argue.
If you like we can go to another point.
Regards |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: Islam |
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Frankly I find your English very difficult to understand.
I appreciate it is not your 'First Language' and thus your English is not any where near as good.
Therefore instead of my struggling with it, it may well be better for me to wait until another Muslem comes along who can articulate a lot better.
Mean while, I would ask you to concentrate on what is really the most important fact of all, that is -
Muhammed was both a killer to support his religion and even promotes beating his own female followers.
Christ does none of those things and instead, promotes only Peace, Pacifism - Non-Violence.
Why then, do you and your fellow Muslems prefer the teachings of your violent, killing and women beating leader?
It makes no sense to me, so perhaps you could explain why it makes sense to you and those like you?
Cheers! |
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Steven3
Lion King
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 1205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Islam |
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Hi Abdelaleem | Abdelaleem wrote: | | It wouldn’t surprise me that you think Mohamed writes Quran on his own not from Allah. |
Well I didn't assume that, but even when talking of Moses or Paul we must put them in context of the times. Considering that Christianity in Muhammed's time was unChristlike, Warqa himself probably was not a pacifist like Jesus, so I'd be interested to know how the Quran views Jesus' pacifism. | Quote: | | Again, Mohamed only knows one Christian in Mecca. Warqa he was Mohamed’s wife cosine. She consulted him when Gabriel appeared first time to Mohamed. So, the theory of cloning Quran from OT and NT is not valid for many reasons. |
That is getting into text-critical issues, we can discuss those later. Some of Quran relates to previous books just as some of NT quotes previous books. | Quote: | | Anyway, I don’t know an answer for your question now. I’ll search in this point. |
That's good of you, thank you
تكرم عينك
_________________
Jo5:26 The Father ... has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Ro6:10 the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
2Co13:4 he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. |
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Abdelaleem
Big Goldfish
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Islam |
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| composer2005 wrote: | Frankly I find your English very difficult to understand.
I appreciate it is not your 'First Language' and thus your English is not any where near as good.
Therefore instead of my struggling with it, it may well be better for me to wait until another Muslem comes along who can articulate a lot better.
Mean while, I would ask you to concentrate on what is really the most important fact of all, that is -
Muhammed was both a killer to support his religion and even promotes beating his own female followers.
Christ does none of those things and instead, promotes only Peace, Pacifism - Non-Violence.
Why then, do you and your fellow Muslems prefer the teachings of your violent, killing and women beating leader?
It makes no sense to me, so perhaps you could explain why it makes sense to you and those like you?
Cheers! |
Yes you’re right the English is not my first language but I think you can understand what I mean. I’ll repost it in different phrasing.
The strange thing is that you closed the conversation about contradiction in Quran but you like to discuss the violence with me although you consider ةy language is not clear.
I understand this as a way to run away from the discussion . to put you in the corner I’ll rephrase the post.
I’m interested in theological debate but your objective is to discuss political/conflicts. You can go to many forums where you can exchange hastiness and “word violence”. |
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