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beloved57
Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 367
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 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: Principles for fellowship |
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There a certain truthes I believe that people must cleave to as to be a basis of our fellowship as the sheep of Christ. Those That I propose and regard without compromise are as follows:
# 1 The Triune God of the universe , that God is One in Essence and Being , yet revealed in Three distinct persons, The Father , Son , and Holy Ghost and these Three are One.
#2 Closely related to #1 is the absolute Deity of Christ , that He is God and was manifested in the Flesh..
# 3 That Salvation is by the absolute Sovereign discrimanating grace Of God.
# 4. That God the Father chose a certain number of men[ generically] to salvation[ in christ]. This act was eternal and it is the mere effect of Sovereign Favor, without any motive to the divine will, in the persons who are the objects of this choice.
#5. That All the elect of God are by nature sons of adam[ and children of wrath] by which we inherit our sinful depravity after thus falling in him in the covenant of works. He being our federal head at creation..
#6 Prior to our creation in adam we the elect were in christ, and a covenant of peace was entered into with the Triune God , wereby after the decreed fall in adam, the elect would be rescued in such a way through their head Christ jesus, that it exalts all the infinite perfections of the triune God. In this covenant, christ obligated himself to suffer what Law and justice required in order to the salvation of the elect, his sheep.. His life of obediance and death has been accept by God and imputed to us and is the sole reason for our Justification !
# 7 I believe in the absolute need of regeneration or newbirth in order for the elect can come to know and realize their blessed salvation through christ, hence faith is given in the newbirth as well as repentance , not as conditions of the newbirth but as evidences of the newbirth..
# 8 That all those who are elected to salvation will in time be effectually called by the blessed Gospel of God, according to Gods eternal purpose, and be eternally saved, and will persevere unto the end inspite of the temptations of satan, and the numerous snares[ the flesh] to which we are exposed to and even succomb to in this world..
I believe that if any can agree on these here principles , there is laid a foundation to fellowship and by the grace of God workout other differences we may have.
I am indebted greatly to John brine for many of my thoughts and expressions, and of course above all indebted to the Holy spirit Of God, who is the churches Guide to lead into all truth.. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6901
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: |
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beloved,
Certainly there are some points you shared which would be cause for division, but not all of them.
I wonder at your use of the phrase: "basis of our fellowship as the sheep of Christ"
Are you asserting that those of the faith who do not hold to all those points are to be shunned? Dismissed? Somehow judged as non-christian?
I find it difficult to accept that God would have us deny fellowship with those of the faith who do not fully accept, or even understand, the doctrine of the elect as you have spelled it out here, for certainly that doctrine is not a requirement for salvation according to scripture.
#1, #2, #3, and #7, I would agree with as necessary for salvation and thus worth dividing over.
#4, #5, #6, and #8, while being sound doctrine, would not negate faith and grace in anyway whatsoever.
BTW, #6 reads like an intellectual exercise and makes little sense unless one is well versed in reformed doctrine.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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beloved57
Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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rev says
| Quote: | | for certainly that doctrine is not a requirement for salvation according to scripture. |
I did not say they were a requirement for salvation but for fellowship, their are many who may be of the election of grace but not yet converted to the truth, so, while yet unconverted to the truth we must not fellowship with them.
The other apostles did not give paul the right hand of fellowship [ though paul was always an elect] until they percieved a conversion of his old understanding of God and had now embraced the truth of the gospel..
gal 2
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
So, those who reject these premises I have founded from the word of God I cannot at this time fellowship with them..not to say in the future it may change.. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I did not say they were a requirement for salvation but for fellowship, their are many who may be of the election of grace but not yet converted to the truth, so, while yet unconverted to the truth we must not fellowship with them. |
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Mar 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| beeloved wrote: | | I did not say they were a requirement for salvation but for fellowship, their are many who may be of the election of grace but not yet converted to the truth, so, while yet unconverted to the truth we must not fellowship with them. |
error... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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and also...here are the basic principals of our faith according to paul...
heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3
And this will we do, if God permit.
but if some wish to rewrite their own...that is between them and GOD... |
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beloved57
Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | | Quote: | | I did not say they were a requirement for salvation but for fellowship, their are many who may be of the election of grace but not yet converted to the truth, so, while yet unconverted to the truth we must not fellowship with them. |
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Mar 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
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I did not say you could not set down and eat supper with the non elect , but fellowship as having your faith in common. I will eat with all types of people, you obviously do not understand christian fellowship.
2 cor 6
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
With your understanding of fellowship the above passage is meaningless to you..lol |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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1 cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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and...
1 cor 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
30For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| beloved57 wrote: | | I did not say you could not set down and eat supper with the non elect , but fellowship as having your faith in common. I will eat with all types of people, you obviously do not understand christian fellowship. |
obviously.. 
Ephesians chapter 3...the whole chapter actually but I will just excerpt here:
Eph 3:8 ¶ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
How are you going to make ALL men see what the fellowship is if you don't demonstrate fellowshipping with them?
fellowship:
1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
1Cr 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?
| Quote: | | 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? |
| Quote: | | With your understanding of fellowship the above passage is meaningless to you..lol |
maybe my faith in God's grace is just stronger than yours..LOL..
hugs
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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beloved57
Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | | beloved57 wrote: | | I did not say you could not set down and eat supper with the non elect , but fellowship as having your faith in common. I will eat with all types of people, you obviously do not understand christian fellowship. |
obviously..
Ephesians chapter 3...the whole chapter actually but I will just excerpt here:
Eph 3:8 ¶ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
How are you going to make ALL men see what the fellowship is if you don't demonstrate fellowshipping with them?
fellowship:
1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
1Cr 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?
| Quote: | | 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? |
| Quote: | | With your understanding of fellowship the above passage is meaningless to you..lol |
maybe my faith in God's grace is just stronger than yours..LOL..
hugs
lone |
I dont see where you have faith in God at all , but your own natural understanding of things you do not understand..
Biblical fellowship is based upon right doctrine :
acts 2
42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
rom 16
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
2jn 1
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6901
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think you really understand what fellowship is beloved. I'm thinking that perhaps you are using the term incorrectly to state something else. either that or you are promoting division and isolationism in the faith.
Either way, you are wrong in what you say.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I dont see where you have faith in God at all , but your own natural understanding of things you do not understand.. |
maybe your just not lookin hard enough..
or in the right place..
| Quote: | | 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. |
you might want to take a look in the mirror..
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Pete
Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| beloved57 wrote: |
I dont see where you have faith in God at all , but your own natural understanding of things you do not understand..
Biblical fellowship is based upon right doctrine : |
For starters, you haven’t backed up any of your “truths” with any Scriptures and you’re only resource seems to be someone called James Brine.
Your first point is totally fallacious and unbiblical, as well as contrary to the doctrine of Christ himself: 2 John 9-10; “Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. V.10; If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.”
1 John 2:22-24; “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. V.23; Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: But he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. V.24; Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.”
1 Timothy 2:4-5; “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. V.5; For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Your second point is also false, since Trinity implies absolute coequality of three members of the trinity.
1 Corinthians 15:28; “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also be subject unto him that put all things under him, That God may be all in all.”
John 14:28; “I go unto my Father: for my Father is greater than I.”
! Corinthians 11:3; “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Your other point that God has predetermined salvation for a select few while the rest have been created for the sole purpose of spending eternity in hell, is also without merit. Romans 5:18; “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
The doctrine of the Trinity has no merit, and as John states, any doctrine other than the Father and the Son is antichrist. This includes the Trinity. |
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beloved57
Pit Bull
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | beloved57 wrote: |
I dont see where you have faith in God at all , but your own natural understanding of things you do not understand..
Biblical fellowship is based upon right doctrine : |
For starters, you haven’t backed up any of your “truths” with any Scriptures and you’re only resource seems to be someone called James Brine.
Your first point is totally fallacious and unbiblical, as well as contrary to the doctrine of Christ himself: 2 John 9-10; “Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. V.10; If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.”
1 John 2:22-24; “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. V.23; Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: But he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. V.24; Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.”
1 Timothy 2:4-5; “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. V.5; For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Your second point is also false, since Trinity implies absolute coequality of three members of the trinity.
1 Corinthians 15:28; “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also be subject unto him that put all things under him, That God may be all in all.”
John 14:28; “I go unto my Father: for my Father is greater than I.”
! Corinthians 11:3; “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Your other point that God has predetermined salvation for a select few while the rest have been created for the sole purpose of spending eternity in hell, is also without merit. Romans 5:18; “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
The doctrine of the Trinity has no merit, and as John states, any doctrine other than the Father and the Son is antichrist. This includes the Trinity. |
So be it pete , we see you at the judgment.. |
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