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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Re: trinity discussion |
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| composer2005 wrote: | You seem to claim Christ's 'cosmic conscience' was 'limited' by what he knew then and taught and therefore you must also conclude that Jesus 'wished' he had copies of 'future revelations' e.g. the Koran, the Book of Mormon or this UB?
Cheers! |
Hi Composer,
That's another great observation, it points to the "mystery" of the incarnation, or in the case of strict monotheist, to the mystery of Jesus "the man" being in the Father and the Father being in him.
In my worlds it would appear that Jesus remained committed to the human experience which he came to live out; he had the power to "self limit" his cosmic consciousness. The celestial beings that were involved in the Urantia revelation also marvel at this phenomenon.
Part 4 of the Urantia revelation was presented in it's entirety by a group of angelic like beings known as "Midwayers". That have been on the planet since the days of the Prince Caligastia who fell into traitorous sin and rebellion against the Fathers rule.
Note:
These Midwayers are the ones that remained loyal to the Father while some midwayers were lost to the sophistries of the fallen Prince. Those sinful Midwayers who fell are the origin of "demons". After the ascension and the adjudication of that age these rebel Midwayers or "demons" were taken off the planet. There are no demons around anymore and when their were they could only make trouble for the mentally unstable. They had no particular power any greater then visible mortals.
JESUS' HUMAN AND DIVINE MINDS
Consciousness of divinity was a gradual growth in the mind of Jesus up to the occasion of his baptism. After he became fully self-conscious of his divine nature, prehuman existence, and universe prerogatives, he seems to have possessed the power of variously limiting his human consciousness of his divinity. It appears to us that from his baptism until the crucifixion it was entirely optional with Jesus whether to depend only on the human mind or to utilize the knowledge of both the human and the divine minds. At times he appeared to avail himself of only that information which was resident in the human intellect. On other occasions he appeared to act with such fullness of knowledge and wisdom as could be afforded only by the utilization of the superhuman content of his divine consciousness.
We can understand his unique performances only by accepting the theory that he could, at will, self-limit his divinity consciousness. We are fully cognizant that he frequently withheld from his associates his foreknowledge of events, and that he was aware of the nature of their thinking and planning. We understand that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was able to discern their thoughts and to penetrate their plans. He did not desire too far to transcend the concept of the human as it was held in the minds of his apostles and disciples.
We are utterly at a loss to differentiate between his practice of self-limiting his divine consciousness and his technique of concealing his preknowledge and thought discernment from his human associates. We are convinced that he used both of these techniques, but we are not always able, in a given instance, to specify which method he may have employed. We frequently observed him acting with only the human content of consciousness; then would we behold him in conference with the directors of the celestial hosts of the universe and discern the undoubted functioning of the divine mind. And then on almost numberless occasions did we witness the working of this combined personality of man and God as it was activated by the apparent perfect union of the human and the divine minds. This is the limit of our knowledge of such phenomena; we really do not actually know the full truth about this mystery. UB 1955
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: Re: trinity discussion |
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| Colter wrote: | | composer2005 wrote: | You seem to claim Christ's 'cosmic conscience' was 'limited' by what he knew then and taught and therefore you must also conclude that Jesus 'wished' he had copies of 'future revelations' e.g. the Koran, the Book of Mormon or this UB?
Cheers! |
Hi Composer,
That's another great observation, it points to the "mystery" of the incarnation, or in the case of strict monotheist, to the mystery of Jesus "the man" being in the Father and the Father being in him. |
No Colter, the only thing it points to and exposes as none sense, is your claims and the fallaciousness of your UB -
Proof against you: -
And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? {bushel : the word in the original signifieth a less measure} 22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. (Mark 4:21 - 22) KJV
The quote speaks for itself and makes a mockery of your current ideology and your UB.
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Composer,
I see no relationship between my post and your reply. What does the "candle" analogy have to do with cosmic consciousness? I'm confused. 
"My brethren, as I send you forth, you are the salt of the earth, salt with a saving savor. But if this salt has lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? It is henceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men.
"You are the light of the world. A city set upon a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and be led to glorify your Father who is in heaven.
"I am sending you out into the world to represent me and to act as ambassadors of my Father's kingdom, and as you go forth to proclaim the glad tidings, put your trust in the Father whose messengers you are. Do not forcibly resist injustice; put not your trust in the arm of the flesh. If your neighbor smites you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Be willing to suffer injustice rather than to go to law among yourselves. In kindness and with mercy minister to all who are in distress and in need.
"I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And whatsoever you believe that I would do to men, do you also to them.
"Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father's kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.
"You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother's eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother's eye.
"Discern the truth clearly; live the righteous life fearlessly; and so shall you be my apostles and my Father's ambassadors. You have heard it said: `If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.' If you would guide others into the kingdom, you must yourselves walk in the clear light of living truth. In all the business of the kingdom I exhort you to show just judgment and keen wisdom. Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.
"I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep's clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.
"In the great day of the kingdom judgment, many will say to me, `Did we not prophesy in your name and by your name do many wonderful works?' But I will be compelled to say to them, `I never knew you; depart from me you who are false teachers.' But every one who hears this charge and sincerely executes his commission to represent me before men even as I have represented my Father to you, shall find an abundant entrance into my service and into the kingdom of the heavenly Father."
Never before had the apostles heard Jesus speak in this way, for he had talked to them as one having supreme authority. They came down from the mountain about sundown, but no man asked Jesus a question.
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: trinity discussion |
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| Colter wrote: | | It appears to us that from his baptism until the crucifixion it was entirely optional with Jesus whether to depend only on the human mind or to utilize the knowledge of both the human and the divine minds. At times he appeared to avail himself of only that information which was resident in the human intellect. On other occasions he appeared to act with such fullness of knowledge and wisdom as could be afforded only by the utilization of the superhuman content of his divine consciousness. |
There is your 'double minded' and unstable UB christ again. (James 1: 8) KJV
| Colter= UB wrote: | We can understand his unique performances only by accepting the theory that he could, at will, self-limit his divinity consciousness. We are fully cognizant that he frequently withheld from his associates his foreknowledge of events, and that he was aware of the nature of their thinking and planning. We understand that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was able to discern their thoughts and to penetrate their plans. He did not desire too far to transcend the concept of the human as it was held in the minds of his apostles and disciples.
We are utterly at a loss to differentiate between his practice of self-limiting his divine consciousness and his technique of concealing his preknowledge and thought discernment from his human associates. We are convinced that he used both of these techniques, but we are not always able, in a given instance, to specify which method he may have employed. |
| Colter wrote: | | I see no relationship between my post and your reply. What does the "candle" analogy have to do with cosmic consciousness? I'm confused |
You speak and claim Christ 'limited himself / limited what he knew and taught others'
The genuine Christ of the Bible disagrees totally with your UB christ with its 'limited and restricted teachings' -
And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? {bushel: the word in the original signifieth a less measure} 22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. (Mark 4:21-22) KJV
You obviously do not understand Colter, unlike the false UB christ with two wills, the genuine Christ of the Bible makes it unambiguously clear that he has but one:
1. A single 'Wil' and not two 'wills' as you claim - Proof: - Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, (singular) . . . (Luke 22:42) KJV (My Bold)as opposed to your claim that the UB christ 'flip flopped' from either his alleged 'human will' over to the alleged 'divine one?'
NB: Unlike the UB christ, the genuine 'Biblical Christ' did not state, "my wills' he was unambiguously clear he only has but one Will.
2. Again as (Mark 4:21-22) KJV above explains, unlike the UB christ that apparently 'limited itself as it suited' the genuine Christ of the Bible was not a candle (light) hiding its full illumination from others but was rather 'set on a candlestick' so that its fullness could shine forth (Mark 4:21) KJV and further more: the false christ of the UB that 'limited itself and what it taught' is exposed by the geniune Christ of the Bible who states - ". . . neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. i.e. unlimited and made freely and fully known to all who were prepared to listen.
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Composer,
Your confusing 'double minded' with duel nature, human and divine in one person. God the Father revealed it to the apostles but then Jesus instructed the apostles to tell no man until he left. He also instructed the apostles to keep the transfiguration a secret until he left. That's all in your bible. 
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: trinity discussion |
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| Colter wrote: | Composer,
Your confusing 'double minded' with duel nature, human and divine in one person. God the Father revealed it to the apostles but then Jesus instructed the apostles to tell no man until he left. He also instructed the apostles to keep the transfiguration a secret until he left. That's all in your bible. :)
Colter |
The UB non Biblical mentality
trinitarians in general all purport the following -
trinitarian jesus is unlike us and has two natures / wills when every one else has just the one.
The Scriptures state: "A double minded man (is) unstable in all his ways." (James 1:8) KJV
You trinitarians including Colter has just degraded Christ to such a man with your claim -
You've made Christ into two completely different persons."
One of them knows everything - one of them doesn't.
One of them can sin - one of them can't.
One of them can die - one of them can't.
One of them is Divine - one of them isn't.
One of them is God the son - one of them is the son of God.
Ability to 'flip flop' from its two natures 'at will' especially apparently when the human nature is vulnerable to fail so switches over to a divine one that can't?
The principle of the verse James 1: 8 KJS / KJV applies to your UB trinitarian scenario. The principle is that a man who is torn between two different states of mind is unstable. That's the Scriptural principle, and it is true.
The facts are that Colter's UB conclusions and trinitarianism in general, insists on making Christ into just such a 'double minded' and therefore 'unstable' man who is 'not like us at all' but has apparently two(2) natures instead of every one else's one(1) and further more makes Christ a liar because the Biblical Jesus said -
a) I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; b) because I seek not mine own will(nature), but the will(nature) of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30) KJS (a) & b) mine) (will / nature inparenthesis mine)
Further more: -
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. (Heb. 4:15) KJS
Or as UB trinitarians prefer to read it as: For we have not a double minded godman unlike us who have one(1) will / nature but instead apparently has two(2) which it can alternate as required and a godman which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points NOT tempted like as [we are, . . ." apparently because it could switch back and forth from a divine will and not be tempted and then switch back to another human nature / will that possibly could?
How convenient for UB supporters, catholics, trinitarians and other false teachers. The problem is that makes their godman 'a liar' and a deceiver for pretending to be 'like us' with only one(1 will / nature) but it has two natures (apparently), and can tell lies, and state that it only has one(1) nature / will and can do nothing (John 5:30) KJV, but according to Colter and the trinitarians it has two(2) natures / wills and can do everything, including 'flip flop' from one nature to another to suit its deceptive purpose of 'pretending to be like us?'
Finally:
| Colter wrote: | | Jesus instructed the apostles to tell no man until he left. He also instructed the apostles to keep the transfiguration a secret until he left. |
Here again you condemn your claims. You claimed your christ 'limited itself and its teachings' but here you acknowledge the Biblical Christ made everything fully known, even those things temporarily hidden from the general populous for a brief time; unlike your UB spurious revelations, that were apparently witheld for millions of years?
The UB christ is a Biblicly proven fraud!
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Cheers! |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: UB in tatters |
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| Colter wrote: | Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
:wink:
Cheers! |
Thomas' confession is an acknowledgment that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead, but it is not a declaration that Jesus is "God the Son". Thomas, a Jew, used a mode of expression common to the Old Testament in which accredited representatives of God are referred to as "God". Angels are called "God" in the following passages: Gen. 16:7 cf. vs. 13; 22:8, 11, 15 cf. vs. 16; Exod. 23:20, 21. Moses is referred to as a "god" to Pharaoh. (Exod. 7:1, "god" is translated from the Heb. "elohim"). "Elohim" translated "God" can refer to the judges of Israel as in Psa. 82:1, 6 cf. John 10:34. It is also translated "judges" in Exod. 21:6; 22:8, 9 and "gods" (mg. "judges") in Exod. 22:28.
Earlier in this chapter, Jesus told Mary, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (vs. 17). Since Jesus was to ascend to his God, then clearly he was not himself "Very God". (Wrested Scriptures by Ron Abel - Emphasis mine)
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: Re: UB in tatters |
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| composer2005 wrote: | | Colter wrote: | Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Cheers! |
Thomas' confession is an acknowledgment that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead, but it is not a declaration that Jesus is "God the Son". Thomas, a Jew, used a mode of expression common to the Old Testament in which accredited representatives of God are referred to as "God". Angels are called "God" in the following passages: Gen. 16:7 cf. vs. 13; 22:8, 11, 15 cf. vs. 16; Exod. 23:20, 21. Moses is referred to as a "god" to Pharaoh. (Exod. 7:1, "god" is translated from the Heb. "elohim"). "Elohim" translated "God" can refer to the judges of Israel as in Psa. 82:1, 6 cf. John 10:34. It is also translated "judges" in Exod. 21:6; 22:8, 9 and "gods" (mg. "judges") in Exod. 22:28.
Earlier in this chapter, Jesus told Mary, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (vs. 17). Since Jesus was to ascend to his God, then clearly he was not himself "Very God". (Wrested Scriptures by Ron Abel - Emphasis mine)
Cheers! |
Composer,
The gift of spirit perception is one of grace, not a tool of the intellect. After I received the gift of the spirit birth I could understand Jesus' teaching. Before that I was also blind to the meaning of his many sayings although I never attacked Jesus as double minded. You may want to reconsider saying such things.
From the Bible:
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Thomas understood that he was both human and divine in one person.
Urantia Book version:
The apostles and those who were with them, when they heard Jesus teach the people in this manner, were greatly perplexed; and after much talking among themselves, that evening in the Zebedee garden Matthew said to Jesus: "Master, what is the meaning of the dark sayings which you present to the multitude? Why do you speak in parables to those who seek the truth?" And Jesus answered:
"In patience have I instructed you all this time. To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the undiscerning multitudes and to those who seek our destruction, from now on, the mysteries of the kingdom shall be presented in parables. And this we will do so that those who really desire to enter the kingdom may discern the meaning of the teaching and thus find salvation, while those who listen only to ensnare us may be the more confounded in that they will see without seeing and will hear without hearing. My children, do you not perceive the law of the spirit which decrees that to him who has shall be given so that he shall have an abundance; but from him who has not shall be taken away even that which he has. Therefore will I henceforth speak to the people much in parables to the end that our friends and those who desire to know the truth may find that which they seek, while our enemies and those who love not the truth may hear without understanding. Many of these people follow not in the way of the truth. The prophet did, indeed, describe all such undiscerning souls when he said: `For this people's heart has waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed lest they should discern the truth and understand it in their hearts.'"
The apostles did not fully comprehend the significance of the Master's words. As Andrew and Thomas talked further with Jesus, Peter and the other apostles withdrew to another portion of the garden where they engaged in earnest and prolonged discussion.
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: trinity discussion |
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| Colter wrote: | | Thomas understood that he was both human and divine in one person. |
Sure he did Colter. just like your refuted claim earlier where you said Jesus 'limited' his teachings and Jesus himself refuted you and said he didn't - . . . neither was any thing kept secret, . . . . (Mark 4:22) KJV
What Thomas did was to recognize like any and every early Christian, including the Apostle Paul, that God is God and Jesus is not God but his God's appointed messenger - Was Jesus God to Paul and other early Christians? No. Paul must be understood within his Jewish contexts.
160
How the Bible became the Bible
. . . . In no way is Paul, still a good Jew (although a Christian one), assuming that Jesus was somehow a divine god second only to YHWH. Yes, Jesus was exalted and had the title “Lord” conferred on him by God. But Jesus was a man who, in Jewish context, had become the Messiah. He was still distinct and inferior to YHWH. When John wrote his almost-Gnostic Gospel almost a half-century later, his use of the “Word” as a pre-existent form is used within Jewish context as well—the same context he used for words like glory, spirit, divine wisdom, and others. “When Paul and John spoke about Jesus as though he had some kind of pre-existent life, they were not suggesting that he was a second divine ‘person’ in the later Trinitarian sense. They were indicating that Jesus had transcended temporal and individual modes of existence. Because the ‘power’ and ‘wisdom’ that he represented were activities that derived from God, he had in some way expressed ‘what there was from the beginning.’”35
The Jews were absolute monotheists. So was Paul. The Jewish Messiah is not a divine figure. The Messiah would be an ordinary human being that would do privileged “God-things.” The Son of God was a simple way to express the closeness of the Messiah’s actions to the will and power of God. Only the gods of the pagans had “sons” or offspring. “It should be noted that Paul never called Jesus ‘God.’ He called him the ‘Son of God’ in its Jewish sense. He certainly did not believe that Jesus had been the incarnation of God himself; he had simply possessed God’s ‘powers’ and ‘spirit,’ which manifested God’s activity on earth and were not to be identified with the inaccessible divine essence.”36 (pp.160,161 - How the Bible became the Bible by Donald L. O'Dell - ISBN 0-7414-2993-4 Published by INFINITY Publishing.com (My Bold))
Further more -
The late Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, wrote:
"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". (27)
27. "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180 (My Bold)
You have no credibility Colter and your UB is recycle bin material only at best.
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The Jews were absolute monotheists. So was Paul. |
Paul was a Romen citizen from Tarsus, a center of Mithraic cults.
| Quote: | | The Jewish Messiah is not a divine figure. The Messiah would be an ordinary human being that would do privileged “God-things.” |
That's in part why the Jews rejected Jesus then and don't believe in him now. Their concept of the expected Messiah was inaccurate, just as the Messianic concept of John the Baptist was imperfect as well as the apostles; Jesus did not bring wrath, there was no "physical battle" against the enemies of Israel nor will their ever be by God.
| Quote: | | The Son of God was a simple way to express the closeness of the Messiah’s actions to the will and power of God. Only the gods of the pagans had “sons” or offspring. “It should be noted that Paul never called Jesus ‘God. |
It should be further noted that Paul never knew Jesus in the flesh. Paul was Pagan so he was open minded.
| Quote: | | He called him the ‘Son of God’ in its Jewish sense. He certainly did not believe that Jesus had been the incarnation of God himself; he had simply possessed God’s ‘powers’ and ‘spirit,’ which manifested God’s activity on earth and were not to be identified with the inaccessible divine essence.” |
Again, Paul was never instructed by Jesus while he was on the earth.
| Quote: | | You have no credibility Colter and your UB is recycle bin material only at best. |
May the spirit of Jesus humble you and draw you into the kingdom of true believers.
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: trinity discussion |
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| Composer2005 wrote: | | The Jews were absolute monotheists. So was Paul. |
| Colter wrote: | | Paul was a Romen citizen from Tarsus, a center of Mithraic cults. |
PAUL, [a worker,] was of Jewish descent, of the tribe of Benjamin, Phil. 3: 5 KJV and probably inherited the right of Roman citizenship from his father, through services rendered to the Roman state.
| Quote: | | The Jewish Messiah is not a divine figure. The Messiah would be an ordinary human being that would do privileged “God-things.” |
| Colter wrote: | | That's in part why the Jews rejected Jesus then and don't believe in him now. |
You claimed Thomas thought Christ was "Very God' but Thomas the Jew(turned Christian) like the Jew Paul(Acts 22: 3) KJV turned Christian)) and all Original believers, they knew Christ was not Very God / God but only God's messenger.
| Quote: | | The Son of God was a simple way to express the closeness of the Messiah’s actions to the will and power of God. Only the gods of the pagans had “sons” or offspring. “It should be noted that Paul never called Jesus ‘God. |
| Colter wrote: | | It should be further noted that Paul never knew Jesus in the flesh. Paul was Pagan so he was open minded. |
I recall you said you were 'open minded also' (reading and believing your UB etc. etc.) so according to your criteria you certainly are a Pagan?
| Quote: | | He called him the ‘Son of God’ in its Jewish sense. He certainly did not believe that Jesus had been the incarnation of God himself; he had simply possessed God’s ‘powers’ and ‘spirit,’ which manifested God’s activity on earth and were not to be identified with the inaccessible divine essence.” |
| Colter wrote: |
Again, Paul was never instructed by Jesus while he was on the earth. |
If you were to study God's Word as found in the Bible and not your spurious comic books, you would discover that Paul was actually personally commissioned by the Lord Jesus as an apostle to the Gentiles. Proof: - And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (Acts 26:15 — 18) KJV (My Bold)
You obviously think that a personal commission from the Lord Jesus Christ means that Christ has 'no confidence' in Paul's teachings? (Bizarre?)
You should also take note how even the resurrected Christ distinguishes himself from his God when he commissions Paul: - . . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, . . .
Taking note that Christ neither said nor implied "Satan unto me! (who is also God)"
| Quote: | | You have no credibility Colter and your UB is recycle bin material only at best. |
| Quote: | May the spirit of Jesus humble you and draw you into the kingdom of true believers.
:)
Colter |
The facts expose your current 'spirit' as a false spirit that continues to misguide you and 1 John 4: 1 KJV exposes it for the false spirit it has proven itself to be.
Cheers! |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The facts expose your current 'spirit' as a false spirit that continues to misguide you and 1 John 4: 1 KJV exposes it for the false spirit it has proven itself to be. |
Composer,
It's been interesting talking with you, I'm gonna stick with Jesus as one with all power and authority in heaven and on earth. I put my faith in him. If I wrong then then at least I'm happy in life with my false spirit.
so long old friend
Colter |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: trinity discussion |
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That is really not good enough Colter.
Your current ideology has failed you miserably.
You still however prefer to believe lies despite the facts placed before which you ignore at your peril.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2: 7 - 12) KJV
The only legitimate conclusion that can be reached is that because you have refused to accept 'The Truth' that has decimated your current claims', then because of your 'stiff necked disobedience' to God's Truth, He has 'sent you a strong delusion' that you actually continue on believing the lies you currently prefer to embrace.
Heed God's dire warning to you Colter -
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt. 7:22 - 23) KJV
I have done my duty - (Ezek. 33;8 - 9) KJV |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 883
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Now bear in mind composer, this is from my perspective, but your last statement seems rather sanctimonious. I'm reminded of the pharisees spoken of in the NT.
I have a remedy though......
Take two tablespoons of your own medicine, and call me in the morning! |
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